Economist, global trend analyst and well know Doctor of Doom, Marc Faber, suggests that with so many monetary, fiscal and political variables at play, the end game of this crisis can be delayed for months or years to come. Faber, who has warned since before the 2008 crisis that entire nations would fail due to high debt levels, that hyperinflation is an inevitable outcome of the Fed’s accounting games, and that war will be the ultimate result, shares his views on CNBC:
[Video Interview Below]
I don’t know what other people think, but what I think will happen eventually – and there are so many contradictory statements coming out that nobody really knows – but eventually the same will happen as in the United States. The ECB (European Central Bank) will print money one way or the other. And, the debts that essentially should be written down to realistic value will continue to be carried on the books of banks at unrealistic values. So, the end crisis will be postponed until the sovereigns go bankrupt.
…
Before they go bankrupt they’ll print money. They’ll print endless money. As long as we have Ben Bernanke and Janet Yellin at the Fed they’ll print money and so they can postpone the end game endlessly…Endlessly not, but say for another five to ten years.
Each money printing exercise brings about unintended consequences. These unintended consequences are partly higher inflation rates than had no money been printed.
When the banking system came unhinged in 2008 many assumed the system would simply collapse into a depression right then and there, reset, and then eventually restart the economic growth cycle. Instead, the US government and central bank decided to intervene. While this “saved” the system at the time, recapitalized banks, boosted stock markets, and pumped what some believe to be in excess of $20 Trillion into the global economy, it really did nothing but further prolong the inevitable. Furthermore, it made the eventual and unavoidable collapse of debt and leverage that much worse.
Now, with Europe very much on the brink, the ECB is really left with no other choice than to print trillions of Euros. The consequences of the money printing in the U.S. and Europe, according to Faber (and many others), will not be pretty:
I think I am very constructive and a I’m a great optimist in life, otherwise I would commit suicide in view of the kind of governments we have nowadays.
Because, for sure, they will take wealth away from well-to-do people one way or the other. And from the middle class they will take it away through inflating the economy and lowering the standards of living.
…So I think that we are in a very difficult situation…
…
If you print money the U.S. it doesn’t mean that it creates bubbles in the U.S. It can create bubbles in your neighboring regions – say Latin America, or Asia, or it can create bubbles in precious metals or in commodities, or in home prices somewhere else in the world. Or, say, for instance, in China. And if the Chinese bubble bursts one day, which inevitably will happen, maybe not tomorrow, but maybe in three months or maybe in three years. But when it happens it will have devastating consequences for the global economy.
As Dr. Faber points out, the system is complex and the butterfly effect, while clearly evident, is simply impossible to predict with any meaningful accuracy. For all we know the entire system can collapse in the next 30 days, or, the full fallout may not be witnessed for several years.
All we can do is draw on historical example and the facts as they become available to us.
What we know is that entire nations, including the United States, have bit off more debt than they can chew. There exists no way to pay this debt back. The only option is immediate default or monetary machinations. No politician is willing to pull the trigger on default, and the banks (who are controlling the strings of the political puppets) will not let it happen if they have any sayso in the matter. Thus, we are left with more printing.
As they print more and force prices to rise, they will also cut services that have become essential to millions. They’ll also move to increase taxes and fees across all Western nations. Total collapse of the system may be avoided for now, but the lives of tens of millions of people will be made more difficult with each new dollar they print and every new policy measure they implement. During the great depression there was a decade of strife before the world went to war. In Zimbabwe, the hyperinflation built up for many years before it went super nova – all the while the people suffered.
The eventual outcome of all this, as Doctor Faber has argued, is the end of the world as we have come to know it. This coming paradigm shift is unavoidable.
So what should you do? According to Faber, All Currencies are Doomed, Except for Gold so become your own central bank and trade your fiat paper for hard assets.
In November of 2009 Faber predicted that the coming meltdown in sovereign debt will eventually lead to the worst possible outcome for the people of the world:
The crisis has not solved anything. On the contrary there is less transparency today than there was before. The government’s balance sheet is expanding, and the abuses that have led to the one cause of the crisis have continued.
I think eventually there will be a big bust and then the whole credit expansion will come to an end.
Before that happens, governments will continue printing money which in time will lead to a very high inflation rate, and the economy will not respond to stimulus.
The average family will be hurt by that, and then in order to distract the attention of the people, the governments will go to war.
People ask me against whom? Well, they will invent an enemy.
Chances are, we can’t stop the war that’s coming, just like we can’t stop the debt collapse. The system is just too big, too complex and out of our control. Thus, according to Faber, it’s time to focus on yourself and your family – with investments that will matter when it all falls apart:
With tongue apparently in cheek, he says buy a farm you can tend to yourself way out in the boondocks. And protect it with high voltage fences, barbed wire, booby traps, military weapons and Dobermans.
Forget time lines here and understand that the sheer size and volatility of the system makes it nearly impossible to identify exactly what, when and how. The only thing we need to know is that we are living in the middle of it all right now, and day-by-day, month-by-month, year-by-year it continues to deteriorate.
We’d be ecstatic If Dr. Faber is correct in his assessment that they could potentially postpone the worst-case endgame for five to ten years. That just means we’ve got much more time than we thought to get out of harm’s way.
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The game changer that Dr. Faber leaves out is that all countries buy into the Infinite Growth Padadigm. Infinite Growth is not possible on a planet with 7 billion people with limited natural resources. We are addicted to cheap fossil fuels and the demand is increasing especially in Chinal and India. There are 10 calories of fossil fuels embedded in each calorie of food that makes it to our table. This is simply not sustainable.
Whatever reason that the give for wars, future wars will be fought for access to fossil fuels for which there is no substitute, fresh water and land that food can be grown on. Google “African Land Grab” and you will be shocked.
Printing more money will not prevent collapse for long, not being able to obtain critical natural, non renewable resources could trigger collapse very quickly.
The nuclear Iran issue could be a triggering event.
This.
Can’t add anything to what Red Leader stated here, he nailed it.
Red did not take into account the population winter that is comming in less than 30 years. Demograhpers, scientists who have degrees in the field of population growth and it’s historic patterns, will tell you that our world population will peak in less than 30 years and then head down rapidly due to births being less than needed to hold the population stable.
Those who support population control have been around for over 150 years. They said the world would reach the tipping point of over population and it’s resulting starvation back before 1900 and several times since then. But we are not there yet. Because they do not understand the ebb and flow of history.
Google: Malthus and Population Myth and also look at Japans economy since the 1980’s. Japan had no post WWII baby boom so they are already experiencing population winter.
There is no such thing as “Fossil Fuels”. Part of the brainwashing program inherent in our science books written by TPTB, that oil comes from “fossils”. What a scam. Oil is not, and never has been, the product of long decayed biological matter.
How about “Abiotic”, i.e. it replenishes itself deep inside the earth.
There is so much oil 40,000 feet down and further, it’s a joke. Ask the Russians.
What do you think they were hitting in 30 to 40,000 feet down in the gulf when it blew?
“Peak Oil” is the perfect concept to bait people into believing the scam. I know, I once took it, hook, line and sinker. Do your research to find out what is really happening
It’s all about CONTROL. ALways has been. The whole thing is a f@#king scam, just like almost everything else spewing out of MSM, the books we read, radio and tv. Why do you suppose they throw people in jail for doubting “history”. Because they don’t want you to know what really happened and who’s behind it.
Sorry, but Oil, or lack of it, is not the issue. But that won’t stop them from keeping you believing in it. Shows you how influential they are. The Force behind their intent to control and manipulate the minds of the masses is almost indestructible.
This is what we are dealing with, IT’s everywhere, and it’s just like having an oil bath; almost impossible to get it off when covered head to toe in it.
And the same people who control the masses will milk every penny they can before the plug is finally pulled. They’ve designed the perfect “demolition in slow motion”. They believe the longer they can postpone a “crash” the more power and control they will have to keep everyone in line.
Slow meltdown. 5 to 10 years before things really heat up. And you thought it was getting warm now? They want all those hard earned “provisions” you’ve got stored away, or they at least want you to start tapping into them now, along with your gold and silver.
Faber’s no dumbing. That’s why he lives where he lives. Even though he’s the Dr of Doom and Gloom, he’s still a business man with a business to run and clients he’s also milking. He doesn’t want to scare them all off.
So what happens when you have to tap into your provisions? Is that the beginning of your personal “collapse”?
The beauty of this transition is that we will all be forced, one way or another, to live more in tune with our immediate environment, i.e. off our land, sustainably. Once we begin that process, a whole new world will naturally and automatically foster a link with our neighbors and community, for the better. Might as well start now and beat the rush. Hiding from the inevitable will only cause pain and suffering, i.e. the gnashing of teeth.
This is no drill!
“The beauty of this transition is that we will all be forced, one way or another, to live more in tune with our immediate environment, i.e. off our land, sustainably. Once we begin that process, a whole new world will naturally and automatically foster a link with our neighbors and community, for the better.”
Sad to say so, but this will never happen.
We will all be forced into a One World Global Governance, with Antichrist at the top of the hierarchy. 666, here we come…
Or not. I’m putting my money on “bleed the masses until they get really pissed then start a war that will scare them back into submission”.
It’s a proven formula. Would you even CONSIDER a rebellion if the U.S. was balls deeps in a war with China?
I think not…
European American:
Your either a pysch-ops operator,.. or an idiot.
Oil is a product of vast sediments of organic matter, mostly the accumulation of algae, not dinosaurs or any other large scale organism (yes,.. they are organic and contributed slightly, but it is negliable).
Abiotic Replentisment is a psuedoscience concept developed by dysfuctional think-tank groups.
Although there is currently a minute amount of oil processing (abiotic) occuring in the earth, it will only produce roughly 1-tanker load of oil per century (depending on which formula you use to calculate it).
If your going to talk about technical issues, at least try to have a technical background, &/or do the required studying, &/or speak with someone who is at least knowledgeable on the subject.
It is clear you have done none of those.
Your an idiot.
JD – Former VP Of Engineering For an Aerospace Company. (and yes,.. I was a US Marine, hence the username)
I gotta agree. Petroleum is made mostly of (wait for it) hydrocarbons. Outside of some rather massively obvious exceptions (e.g. liquid methane on one of Saturn’s moons, Titan), you’re simply not going to end up with an endless supply of the stuff – especially here on Earth.
I’m certainly open to anyone with proof otherwise, if indeed any proof exists outside of theory.
Thing is, once we start running out, it’ll start getting expensive – and no, it doesn’t involve some conspiracy to make that happen. There are far greater reserves of petroleum than the typical pockets of crude under the dirt, but getting to them will get more and more expensive as the easy supplies dry up. There’s enough crude locked into shale and tar sands in Canada to easily beat Saudi Arabia’s entire proven reserves. Problem is, it’s hella expensive per gallon to extract the stuff into a liquid form that can be distilled.
All this hocus-pocus of Abiotic petroleum is nothing more than unproveable theory at this point.
OC: WE gotta start cloning dinosaurs from these frozen fossils they keep finding in the arctic!
WE’ll never run out of oil then!!! 🙂
U.S. Marine, did you say something? Were you talking to me? Aerospace? Wow, impressive.
“Abiotic Replentisment is a psuedoscience concept developed by dysfuctional think-tank groups.”
Didn’t they say the same thing when the earth was flat and some think tank begged to differ? “Off with their heads!” the piously self righteous scholars of the time proclaimed.
Ooh-rah!
I’m just a Grunt, plain and simple … what I do know is there is plenty of oil at the moment period! With multiple re-guvinating alternative resources to be tapped into and clean coal to give us unlimited power for the next million years. As america is being intentionally de-industrialized and china’s demand is still building… there is a man-made glut in the market… Oil super Tankers the world over are stacked 20 deep at the major oil unloading ports/ hubs… just sitting there off shore for months to build a false scarcity so a few handful of rich folks may jack up the prices on the many poor money bleeding them dry!
As for the Tar-Sands and other exploratory oil extraction projects… We as Human beings need to seriously look at the Cost to Our Environment Pollution and the Poisoning of our Natural Fresh water supplies, Tar-Sand extraction uses a HUGE amount of WATER and Leaves behind Toxic Sludge , huge amounts, only 3% of the earths water is Fresh and that is Declining daily by intentional industrial poisoning by companies such as BP EXXON etc etc not to forget Depleted Uranium used by the US Military and Israeli Jews as well as Radiation from Fukuobama Jap Nuke plant and other emergency releases from NUKE plants the world over… all americans and canadians are now being showered in Nuclear Fallout! DAILY! Constantly and there is no escaping it!
Wake up Human Beings… your way of life is KILLING YOU!
Only by BREAKING the Industrial War Complexes and IMF WORLS BANK NWO BilderBoyBugger hold and monopoly on gobal resources will we THE PEOPLE Truly Be Free!
REBEL and FIGHT the NWO! Fight the IMF WORLD BANK CARTEL!
Or Suffer an Die a GOYIM DEBT SLAVE!
Arm Up Stock Up Prepare
Preditor or Prey the Choice is Yours!
ahhh, US Marines, another of DK’s alter ego’s
forgot to add, No VP of Engineering for an Aerospace company would ever spell YOU’RE, your…………whos the idiot DK?
@DK: “WE gotta start cloning dinosaurs from these frozen fossils they keep finding in the arctic!”
Hehehe… true, but whatcha gonna do with a cloned Brontosaur? (hell, what do you think one would taste like, anyway?)
I vote we run a pipeline to Titan. Smokin’ O lives in Oklahoma, and the Okies know a little something about petroleum and pipelines. How much d’ya think he’d charge per foot to build it?
==
@EA: “Didn’t they say the same thing when the earth was flat and some think tank begged to differ?”
Err, hate to say it, but there is one big, fat, important distinction: The round-Earth theory has mathematics, and most importantly, it had empirical evidence and proof to back it up.
Now, like I said before, if someone’s got evidence and proof that the Abiotic theory works, then by all means let’s see it. Until then, it’s got quite a few really big holes in the theory.
The oceanic crust is 3 to 6 miles thick. Modern off-shore drilling rigs can go as much as 40,000 feet (over 7 miles) deep. What are they looking for in the mantle of the earth? I am willing to bet that you aren’t going to find remains of dinosaurs or any other life below the crust of the earth. Any petroleum down there would have to be produced by an inorganic process. Also, petroleum contains almost none of the most common elements in animals, such as phosphorus, sodium, magnesium, and potassium. The percentages of elements contained in petroleum and those contained in animals are so different, that it should be obvious that dinosaurs and oil have little in common once you get past the carbon, hydrogen and oxygen. Where does the calcium go when dinosaurs are compressed? Did all the dinosaur skeletons walk away from their flesh when they died? I have wondered about this for years.
Timeline
• 1857 — Romania produces 2,000 barrels of oil, marking the beginning of the modern oil industry.
• 1859, Aug. 25 — Edwin L. Drake strikes oil in Titusville, Pennsylvania
• 1862 — First commercial oil production in Canada, also 1863 in Russia.
• 1862 — Most widely used lamp fuel (camphene) taxed in US at aprox. $1 a gallon; kerosene taxed at 10 cent per gallon. (Kovarik, 1997)
• 1863 — John D. Rockefeller starts the Excelsior Refinery in Cleveland, Ohio.
• 1879 — US Geological Survey formed in part because of fear of oil shortages.
• 1882 — Institute of Mining Engineers estimates 95 million barrels of oil remain. With 25 milliion barrels per year output, “Some day the cheque will come back indorsed no funds, and we are approaching that day very fast,” Samuel Wrigley says. (Pratt, p. 124).
• 1901 — Spindletop gusher in Texas floods US oil market.
• 1906 — Fears of an oil shortage are confirmed by the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS). Representatives of the Detroit Board of Commerce attended hearings in Washington and told a Senate hearing that car manufacturers worried “not so much [about] cost as … supply.”
• 1919, Scientific American notes that the auto industry could no longer ignore the fact that only 20 years worth of U.S. oil was left. “The burden falls upon the engine. It must adapt itself to less volatile fuel, and it must be made to burn the fuel with less waste…. Automotive engineers must turn their thoughts away from questions of speed and weight… and comfort and endurance, to avert what … will turn out to be a calamity, seriously disorganizing an indispensable system of transportation.”
• 1920 — David White, chief geologist of USGS, estimates total oil remaining in the US at 6.7 billion barrels. “In making this estimate, which included both proved reserves and resources still remaining to be discovered, White conceded that it might well be in error by as much as 25 percent.” (Pratt, p. 125. Emphasis added).
• 1925 — US Commerce Dept. says that while U.S. oil production doubled between 1914 and 1921, it did not kept pace with fuel demand as the number of cars increased.
• 1928 — US analyst Ludwell Denny in his book “We Fight for Oil” noted the domestic oil shortage and says international diplomacy had failed to secure any reliable foreign sources of oil for the United States. Fear of oil shortages would become the most important factor in international relations, even so great as to force the U.S. into war with Great Britain to secure access to oil in the Persian Gulf region, Denny said.
• 1926 — Federal Oil Conservation Board estimates 4.5 billion barrels remain.
• 1930 — Some 25 million American cars are on the road, up from 3 million in 1918.
• 1932 — Federal Oil Conservation Board estimates 10 billion barrels of oil remain.
• 1944 — Petroleum Administrator for War estimates 20 billion barrelsof oil remain.
• 1950 — American Petroleum Institute says world oil reserves are at 100 billion barrels. (See Jean Laherre, Forecast of oil and gas supply)
• 1956 — M.King Hubbard predicts peak in US oil production by 1970.
• 1966 – 1977 — 19 billion barrels added to US reserves, most of which was from fields discovered before 1966. (As M.A. Adelman notes: “These fields were no gift of nature. They were a growth of knowledge, paid for by heavy investment.”)
• 1973 — Oil price spike; supply restrictions due to Midde Eastern politics.
• 1978 — Petroleos de Venezuela announces estimated unconventional oil reserve figure for Orinoco heavy oil belt at between three and four trillion barrels. (More recent public estimates are in the one trillion range).
• 1979 — Oil price spike; supply restrictions due to Midde Eastern politics.
• 1980 — Remaining proven oil reserves put at 648 billion barrels
• 1993 — Remaining proven oil reserves put at 999 billion barrels
• 2000 — Remaining proven oil reserves put at 1016 billion barrels.
• 2005 — Oil price spike; supply restrictions and heavy new demand
THE OIL RESERVE FALLACY
http://www.radford.edu/~wkovarik/oil/
Biotic or Abiotic, the earth isn’t running out of oil anytime soon. “Peak Oil” THEORY is BS. I wish the creator of this website would update it. With the deep offshore oil fields Brazil found in 2007 & 2009 they became an exporter of oil instead of an importer. Everyone, please read this site. And please, if you’re going to call someone an idiot at least know the difference between “your” and “you’re”.
I concur. European American is an idiot. He probably believes in unicorns and fairies also.
Kick his ASSumption! You rock, US Marines. We are all like you in this sort of community. And beware to all…
Among the fifty top contributors, there will be one or more highly competent mind and set of hands on ANY meaningful subject. So, don’t write BS! You will be called out. I have my ability to speak to some issues, others…. Their expertise. Lets continue to watch out for each other. We don’t need to go into a PREP effort with bad intel. Powder dry!
I’ll believe in Abiotic Replenishment when somebody shows me an exhausted oil field that has replenished itself. 😀
I have a pretty decent background in chemistry, and I’m pretty sure that the many hydrocarbons (primarily alkanes and aromatics) that form the basis of petroleum would have to come from living things. Also wanted to mention that the Fukushima plant was named after a village elder, Shima, who was a real pain in the balls about not wanting the plant to be built near his village (a reference to ninaorket’s post).
Decaying living things, I meant.
“The oceanic crust is 3 to 6 miles thick.”
…in places – usually places with 4-5 miles of deep water sitting above it.
To date no one has successfully drilled through to the Earth’s Mantle.
“What are they looking for in the mantle of the earth?”
Not much of anything that isn’t scientific – the Mantle is ‘plastic’ in nature due to temperature (that is, it isn’t quite a solid, but it isn’t quite liquid).
The reason offshore wells claim 40k feet is due to two factors: The ocean depth before you hit bottom, and the fact that oil wells nowadays can drill *sideways* to better extract a given large pocket of oil.
That all sort of blows away the rest of the depth argument.
“Also, petroleum contains almost none of the most common elements in animals, such as phosphorus, sodium, magnesium, and potassium.”
The elements you mentioned are highly reactive and volatile, and will have bonded to water or some other liquid (then carried off) long before petroleum is formed.
“The percentages of elements contained in petroleum and those contained in animals are so different, that it should be obvious that dinosaurs and oil have little in common once you get past the carbon, hydrogen and oxygen.”
Heat, pressure, geology, and time. You might also notice that most dinosaur bones that you see in museums are not made of a calcium compound, but are instead made of solid rock, formed by dissolved minerals that have leached in over time as the calcium leaches out, and quite literally replaced the bones.
Since no underground point in space experiences the same composition, pressure or temperature, or even experiences a given measurement of those for the same lengths of time, we end up with petroleum in one spot, and fossils in another.
“Where does the calcium go when dinosaurs are compressed?”
It dissolved in ground or sea water, and other minerals precipitate to fill the voids left behind. See above.
Also, dinosaurs are not the only source of petroleum – nearly all of it comes from plants and smaller animals, insects, and the like.
Hey JD,
Please are we really to believe that you were VP of Engineering for an Aerospace company? Next thing I know you will tell us that Airline pilots compensate for the curvature of the Earth while flying. As a pilot myself I have never been able to do that. Why? cause there aint no curviture to the earth. Pilots fly in straight line. Try it, from Venezuela to Spain.
Oh my an Aerospace engineer? wow! Next you’ll tell me that the apollo rockets that supposedly went to the moon were able to carry the required 100,000,000 pounds of fuel with them to get there, in a compartment made for 20,000lbs which by the way could only carry them up twelve miles? No wait and then come back to earth from the moon with no rocket boosters? An engineering miracle.
Now who is the idiot?
Rama – airline pilot that flies in a straight line and never goes off into space. Geesh.
Tis is a very interesting viewpoint that is put out by big oiland the government that all is well, don’t worry. If Abiotic Oil is true, why is oil near $100? Also, if this process was scientifically documented, we would be making our oil.
There are plenty of murdering dictators in the world, yet the Europeans and Americans go after Lybia. This is because Lybia has 2% of the known oil reserves, the majority of which is purchased by the Europeans. We got involved because we don’t want them buying from our suppliers. The point is that 2% is worth dying for.
Here is an excellent article from Business Insider with some very good graphs that simply say with 7 Billion people on earth we are running out of stuff.
http://www.businessinsider.com/commodities-boom-2011-11
A WORD ABOUT ABIOTIC OIL
There is some speculation that oil is abiotic in origin — generally asserting that oil is formed from magma instead of an organic origin. These ideas are really groundless. All unrefined oil carries microscopic evidence of the organisms from which it was formed. These organisms can be traced through the fossil record to specific time periods when quantities of oil were formed.
Likewise, there are two primal energy forces operating on this planet, and all forms of energy descend from one of these two. The first is the internal form of energy heating the Earth’s interior. This primal energy comes from radioactive decay and from the heat energy originally generated during accretion of the planet some 4.6 billion years ago. There are no known mechanisms for transferring this internal energy into any secondary energy source. And the chemistry of magma does not compare to the chemistry of hydrocarbons. Magma is lacking in carbon compounds, and hydrocarbons are lacking in silicates. If hydrocarbons were generated from magma, then you would expect to see some closer kinship in their chemistry.
The second primal energy source is light and heat generated by our sun. It is the sun’s energy that powers all energy processes on the Earth’s surface, and which provides the very energy for life itself. Photosynthesis is the miraculous process by which the sun’s energy is converted into forms available to the life processes of living matter. Following biological, geological and chemical processes, a line can be drawn from photosynthesis to the formation of hydrocarbon deposits. Likewise, both living matter and hydrocarbons are carbon based.
Finally, because oil generation is in part a geological process, it proceeds at an extremely slow rate from our human perspective. Geological processes take place over a different frame of time than human events. It is for this reason that when geologists say that the San Andreas fault is due for a powerful earthquake, they mean any time in the next million years — probably less. Geological processes move exceedingly slow.
After organic matter has accumulated on the sea floor, it must be buried by the process of deposition. In geological time, in order for this matter to be a likely prospect for hydrocarbon generation, the rate of deposition must be quick. Here is an experiment you can conduct to get an idea how slow the rates of deposition are. Place a small stone on the bottom of a motionless pond. Take another stone of about the same size and place it at the mouth of a small stream, a stream where the current is not so great that it will sweep the stone away. Check both of these stones yearly until they have been buried by deposition. You might see the stone at the mouth of the stream covered over within a few years, but it is unlikely that you will see the stone in the pond buried within your lifetime.
It is a simple geological fact that the oil we are using up at an alarming rate today will not be replaced within our lifetime — or within many lifetimes. That is why hydrocarbons are called non-renewable resources. Capped wells may appear to refill after a few years, but they are not regenerating. It is simply an effect of oil slowly migrating through pore spaces from areas of high pressure to the low-pressure area of the drill hole. If this oil is drawn out, it will take even longer for the hole to refill again. Oil is a non-renewable resource generated and deposited under special biological and geological conditions.
You are so Full of Shit @RedLeader…
Go back to your StarWars Coventions and STFU !!! It’s obvious you are a U.N. GLOBAL WARMING Nut Job working for AL “Hands On Gurls” Gore and have the hockey stick shoved so far up your DeathStar your seeing nothing but Stars! Keep drinking the cool-aid Boob-a-Fieet! It’s because of a-holes like you that Global Carbon Credits Taxes are being put in place, to further financially enslave Goyim Debt Slaves and kill the family pocketbook the world over!
Keep it up Global WARMING Troll!
It’s a-holes like you that keeps me digging to learn the truth of whatreallyhappened.com!
Ninaorket, I am not sure how you got anything about Global Warming from Abiotic Oil post. You might consider changing out the HEPA Filter in your crack pipe.
I agree that man caused Global Warming has not been proven. The Earth has warmed and cooled without any man produced CO2 many times in history. I think it is caused by the sun because the sun does not have a thermostat installed on it.
Also, I am nor the original author of the post, I cut and pasted it. Having said that, as someone who employs the scientific method for analysis frequently, it makes a lot of sense to me. If oil comes from magma, this process should be reproduceable in the laboratory.
Red leader, a line can also be drawn between photosynthesis and the human version of that: Glycolysis & the Krebs cycle. Life on Earth is truly incredible.
Absolutely right, RL; carbon is an essential component of petroleum, period. While the formation of other slightly more complex compounds can theoretically be formed from methane in the earth’s mantle, those of increasing size and complexity (octane, hexane,nonane, benzene, etc) are much less likely to be formed this way.
Time to worry: World Oil Production Finishes Six Years of No Growth.
http://scitizen.com/future-energies/time-to-worry-world-oil-production-finishes-six-years-of-no-growth_a-14-3714.html
Really?
Seriously, the Oil Fairy is going to solve our problems? Oil is our Manifest Destiny? God loves us and wants us to drive SUV’s?
There is zero compelling evidence for abiotic BS, I mean unless you mean by “abiotic” that it will replenish in several million years.
Heh… “Abiotic” is a Latin mash-up for “Without life”, meaning that there are folks who think that petroleum is made without using dead plants and animals.
I believe the same – oil is abiotic.
Read The Deep Hot Biosphere by Gold…there are hydrocarbons by the megaton on Jupiter, Saturn, ETC. So…are we to believe at one time these planets were simply swarming with dinosaurs and ferns.
Oil from heated, compressed plants doesn’t stand even to cursory examination.
Methane and Ethane are simple hydrocarbons (only takes one or two carbon atoms, repectively), and on the Outer planets, it is kept in place by extreme low temperatures.
Making something like Octene or Cyclohexane, on the other hand? Those require heat, pressure, and a lot of carbon-rich material (like dead plants and animals).
Interesting; please site any peer reviewed scientific study supporting Abiotic Oil. I have not been able to find any reports other than those that can only be called “fringe” reports, which cannot be independently verified by other scientists, Thanks.
There you go Gregory8, trying to confuse people with facts, science and logic!
I’m with you European American. Oil and methane is produced by the reaction of Limestone, which makes up 4 percent of the earth’s crust, and water at high temperature and pressure. It then seeps upward through fissures in the crust. So then you do find evidence of life forms in the oil because limestone is made from the microscopic bodies of long dead and fossilized single celled creatures. Very simple. The Russians know this and have used it to help find vast oil fields in unusual places. Do a search on the Sakhalin II field. The acceptance of truth always lags the discovery of truth by decades or even centuries, if it is ever accepted at all.
Are you talking beef or rice? Catfish put on more weight per pound than beef and that’s just throwing sinking 21% high protein feed in the water. What’s for dinner, protein! It’s what the world wants.
OQ: What will brontosaurus’ taste like? They will taste like chicken of course!
Pass the twinkies!!!
“Hehehe… true, but whatcha gonna do with a cloned Brontosaur? (hell, what do you think one would taste like, anyway?)”
Ask Fred F. Isn’t he the one that was always ordering the brontosaurous burger at the drive thru?
Just had a thought…amazing, I know. I wonder what the kids at Burger Whopper would think if you ordered a brontosaurous burger in the drive thru? Tell ’em Fred sent ya?
It will be marketed as “Jurassic Pork”.
Strangely enough, reptiles often do taste and cook like bird meat…
Faber has disconnected. If this goes another 6 months, consider it a “prepping/planning” GIFT. Another 5-10 years my ASS!
You are wrong on one point sir, Cannabis is a perfectly sustainable substitute for ‘fossil fuel’ and it’s food too, you just need the fresh air and water.
If Saddam was exporting coconuts we would’t be there.
Yep it’s all about global positioning to future secure natural resource supplies.
One thing I don’t understand. If the developing world is a major reason for increasing demand on finite resources why bend over backwards facilitating their development? On one hand you increase their industrial capacity and then use your military and political power to guard resources that feeds their industrial machine.
“If Saddam was exporting coconuts we would’t be there.”
To be fair, if all Iraq ever exported were coconuts, you wouldn’t have a Saddam Hussein – the money and power simply wouldn’t exist.
Maybe I do have time to get that bug out cabin in the Smokies.
Side note,
Been waiting for the right forum to brig this up
Iguess now is as good a time as any.
I believe I have found an incredible non-lethal Zombie weapon,
There is a “laser” called the Arctic Spider, made by Wicked Laser.
Most “lasers” you see in stores range in power from 3 to 30 micro Watts
and will most definitely cause damage if looked at directly.
The Spyder, is 1000 micro watts or 1watt.
It can pop balloons from several feet away!
I am comfortable with guns, and the only reason I have not bought one
is that it scares the he’ll out of me because it seems like a toy and could be easily
mistaken for one by a child (looks like a light saber).
Anyone else looked into the Wicked Laser, products?
Oh,
And they have a flashlight that can light paper on fire from 6in. Away!
Never bring a knife to a gunfight. Same goes for a laser that destroys balloons. The “Zombie” scenario is real.
Knife beats Gun 10 feet or less… police P. A. R. T./ KOGA rule! Beware the knife 10 feet or less.
Fair enough,
I get it.
I was just intrigued by it’s ability to fry your cones and rods from a mile away,
and no doubt it could blind a drones night vission system.
Back to the basics…
Thanks for popping my bubble Swift, I had grand ideas for it.
Every evil genius should have a freakn laser beam!
Not so sure it’d be worth having. Eats electricity, made of fairly delicate parts, and no idea about the price.
A shotgun shell full of rock salt would be non-lethal, and would get the point across much faster. *shrug*
OQ,
I suppose I can just use the boom stick….
Maybe I’ve seen too many si fi movies….
I just wanted a laser beam.
@Slick, that was great. “I just wanted a laser beam.”
Too cool. I’ve been thinking about a 1970 pick up with spring loaded boxes that throw out real sharp pieces of 2.5 by 2.5 by .25 angle iron cut so it has a sharp point up no matter how it lands. Oh, and of course the standard 15 gallon oil sprayer and a few other goodies.
Thanks P.O.A.,
I like your idea of the 70’s pickup, 007nd out.
I am honored that you understand my pain.
I’ve always wanted a “laser beam”‘
I don’t think it’s asking too much.
And I would love to see your 70’s pickup with all the little old school tricks that
you would integrate with it, and maybe. A few “Laser Beams” mounted forward and aft.
“Maybe I do have time to get that bug out cabin in the Smokies.”
That’s sort of what I’ve been saying all this time, that we have around 3-5 years from now to get all settled in to wherever our bug-out/bug-in location will be.
Gosh, I hope you are right because we are SO far behind the rest of the folks on here and not nearly far enough from PDX! But we are working very hard and serious at it. Have done a little looking for very rural land…thought there would be a lot available with the market conditions but I haven’t found any real prospects yet.
Try looking north of the Columbia? About 10 miles East of Vancouver it starts thinning out quite rapidly.
Yeah, we were thinking the Gifford forest(WA)area would be a good location. But what if we couldn’t get across the river to get there? I like north eastern Oregon too…but that is a 6-8 hour drive and if it had to be done in the winter, it could be a slow and challenging trip! We have lived here all our lives so we know most back roads to get around with out using major highways. We can get from our home to the Bend area or Springfield/Eugene etc. by using forest service roads. We also have great maps…early 1980’s Forest Service maps. I tried searching MLS for land and found very little, of course we don’t have a lot of $$ to work with so that may have had something to do with it. It is funny, back in the early 90’s we were looking for BO land…not sure why (gut feeling)…but we looked a lot. I sure wished we would have bought back then. Instead, we settled on 4 acres,an old farm house in the “sorta” country to live and raise our daughter…it has been great! We have done the mini-farm thing: goats, laying chickens, meat chickens, beef, rabbits, hort. and gardening projects etc… so it has been good skill building that may come in quite handy in the likely shtf scenario. I would definitely get out of the apartment situation as soon as possible. Hopefully, you aren’t in the R-wood area.
Stay out of Klickitat. It has been occupied by zombies for years.
Bend is a pretty good option too, though I suspect not quite in-town.
Staying in-state as a BOL, I think, the trick would be to avoid the I-5 corridor (and the entire Willamette valley, since that’s where most of the state’s population sits). Eastern Oregon is going to be a lot like Eastern Washington – the further East you go, the drier it gets… just gotta keep that in mind.
The coast has one really big problem: PCH (Pacific Coast Highway, or Hwy 101). Unless that gets cut off at the first bridge north of the border (we’re talking dynamite), it’ll become a primary conduit for California zombies moving Northward (along with I-5). I suspect that Northern Cali isn’t going to be big enough to absorb ’em all…
I mentioned Washington along the Northern half of the Columbia because it’s mostly empty, and aside from a couple of bridges here and there, a bit tough to get to from the nearest interstate (84).
Looking around, I’ve been thinking about the main routes that the zombies will take when they start emptying out of Multnomah County (err, Portland). I-5, Probably Hwy 30 and 26 going westwards, along I-84 eastwards… There’s a few south-easterly routes as well, mostly towards Mt. Hood.
Being west of the Willamette, I’m a little fortunate, but only if all the bridges clog up to the point where the zombies are forced to move on foot if they want to move West. I already know that in a SHTF situation, Hwy 26W and I-5 (southbound) will get clogged to the point of being useless.
I think it would be a fairly good idea for one thing that preppers can collaborate on: we can all, without giving away jack about our own situation, collaborate on a Zombie Migration Map of sorts. Based on my own experiences, I can provide input on at least three states and a couple of other cities besides.
Slick, Check out Del Rio, Tn…smack dab in the Smokies, part of Cocke County…my momma lives there and you’re pretty much left alone to do what you want! We’ve looked into building a small cabin there and when I called about building codes I was told ” Honey, that’s your land, you do whatever you want with it”! The only thing you have to have permits for is the septic and the electric…and when I tell you a few twenties slipped into the hand goes ALONG way to getting it signed off, believe me…it’s the truth!
Just built a cabin on 50 acres next to national forest half way between Newport and Hot Springs. Live in Maryville, so have about a 90 min. drive. Yes, it is remote. WThree bedrooms and two bath … 600 foot well. We have some fine tuning. Want to get a standby generator. Inlaws have a farm on the Frrench Broad .. cand always grow veggies there or in mountain. Had direct tv installed. He said it was the most remote site he worked on.
SML,been through that county. Met two brothers there, each had a leg that was shorter than the other (one had a shorter right leg and one had a shorter left leg). When I asked them about the shorter leg they replied that it was easier to plow with the mule on the side of the hill. One brother would plow one way and the other brother would take over and take it back the other way. My wife and I came close to buying property there not long ago. If you live in that county (Cocke) they would definitely have to burn the stump and sift the ashes to find you. My folks live up and over in Union county and my sister lives a few miles from them.
LOL!! Yep, those mountain people do seem to get that “short leg” problem a lot!!
And you’re right about Cocke County!! You can hide there and NEVER be found,in fact, the Smoky Mountains is where that abortion bomber guy hid out for years..think his name was Randolph..anyway, my momma lives there, in Cosby actually, and I live in Knox County,a few miles south of the Union County line…land is a lot cheaper in Union and Cocke than Knox…that’s for sure!! And creeks and streams every where you go,we have a creek in our backyard.. so water would not be a problem in SHTF! Have to say, I love living here!
You don’t have that much time left, The 10 year Italian bond yield has crossed over the high alert mark. When Italy falls, Spain, Ireland and Portugal will follow suit and somewhere in there you’ll see the US fall apart too.
Better speed up your prepping.
Time of Jacobs Trouble is about to begin.
It’s really sad they don’t take the 10 years to prepare ALL. They could. It really would not be that hard.
1. Issue gold and silver backed dollars again and issue them thru the govt not the fed. Remember Bush’s hand outs? Well do the same thing only in silver coin. Tell everyone we want you to hoard for inflation.
2. Get off imports and by that I mostly mean oil. Get our own production going so when the Arabs and Hugo abandon the dollar for oil it won’t hurt as quickly.
3. Instead of 447 billion for a bunch of govt and union jobs use it to get the housing crisis over and put the country on a solid footing with the second most valuable asset … Real estate. We could move people from 900 mo rent to 750 a month ownership.
4. Raise energy taxes so solar and renewables are at parity. This will raise money, and create a truly sustainable industry. We’ve just hit this in CA and it’s really working. Hawaii and NJ have it. Bring the sun belt states on quickly. Yes it’s inflationary but that ship has sailed and the more people on their own power the better.
Re: #4- go to the Energy Electric Power Annual report and see how many thousand megawatt hrs of electricity are produced by solar and wind. Then figure out where both are viable (Hint – not everywhere). Then figure the land footprint needed to replace coal, oil, nuclear, and natural gas supply. Factor in distribution lines that are needed. and ka-ching – you quickly figure out that the average homeowner utility bill will increase by about 1500%. Solar and wind just ain’t gonna replace all other types so that we can be “eco-friendly”. Nope.
G-Man you don’t put solar some where that also requires distribution….you put it on people’s homes.
Californian’s are paying 34 cents a kilowatt hour for electricity right now, solar can be provided at 30 cents thus actually saving the CA consumer money. No investment is needed so long as consumer agrees to buy at 30 cents the system is paid for by investors!
If we add the subsidized VOLT, LEAF, and every other electric car to our grid and no new electric supply – we’re screwed.
And for those who don’t have the sun there is a new Natural Gas \ Electric generation product out there which is ideal for the northern part of our country.
We used 872 kw/hrs of electric power here at the house this month. Of that, we bought 214 from the power company, and produced 658 of our own (solar).
The bill was -$47. ( due to the way they pay for solar )
Right now, we could cut out tie to the grid IF the need arose, and not feel the impact too bad. I won’t, due to the amount they pay me to produce solar, but we could, if need be.
TnAndy. Still trying to get the full jest of solar installation and operation. Any sites you recommend? I want to get out from under the grid or as in your instance, close to it.
TNAndy…can I be your new neighbor?? You have it ALL together!!! 😀
Research “FUELESS ENERGY” and build your own Heater Units and Power Units… it works!
“fueless energy generator” – you can buy all the parts you need at HOMEDEPOT! An NAPA!
A “fueless oil friction heater” generates `90 degree temps constantly!
And it all works off of “Magnetic Repulsion” with simple magnets!
YOU can build your own hybrid power plants and the power outputs are as much as your minds , hands , self ingenuity can produce.
Even you Grunts out there can do this it’s basic electricity… and don’t buy the kits … you can build your own on the simple concept and basic design free on-line!
FUELESS ENERGY, will set you free!
PO:
http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/index.php
http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/index.php
Much obliged!
“go to the Energy Electric Power Annual report and see how many thousand megawatt hrs of electricity are produced by solar and wind.”
…may want to count hydro in there too. 😉
“Then figure the land footprint needed to replace coal, oil, nuclear, and natural gas supply.”
They’ve done that for solar. It comes out to roughly 100 square miles of panel to feed the whole US at current consumption levels. Blend in wind, hydro (after kicking out the eco-nuts), nuclear (start with the latest French designs), and the like, and it can be done. Question is, will it? I’m guessing not.
“Factor in distribution lines that are needed.”
The vast majority of that already exists and is being used.
“you quickly figure out that the average homeowner utility bill will increase by about 1500%.”
Actually, a solar installation pays itself off on an average of 10 years (even without tax breaks), and the high-end panels come with a 25-year warranty.
OC: With the new 90% efficiency solar cells that land requirement is reduced by two-thirds!
Put those new solar cells on homes in the Southwest and it would be EASY power America!
Imagine if homeowners in Phoenix with gable roofs were REFITTED under a energy defense program using tax benefits currently allocated to hydrocarbons …
Poof! NO energy problems whatsoever. Of course America would no longer be interested in the Middle East (Read Israel) and dual citizens in the State and War Departments would be furious!!!
Plus the bio-impact of putting in just the concrete foundations for the wind power is devastating for the local flora and fauna. Talk about messing with the local eco-system. It takes a whole lot of pouring concrete to hold up one of those wind turbines, that means excavation, building forms, I hope I’m being clear enough. Impact per square foot per kilowatt produced is horrible. I’m not a green weeny at all, in fact I’m all for the new Nukes.
Terry: If you are talking about a huge wind tower yeah. But why go HUGE? No real value to that for the American consumer and hey! its OUR money.
Southwest Windpower in Flagstaff Arizona makes smaller turbines for individual use. The answer to Alt Energy is not Corporate wind farms, its retail users at the individual level.
Let every home become a power station for the American family. Let every American SFR owner become a power producer for the local power company; selling their excess power to the power company or using it to charge their electric cars.
New inexpensive design modifications from Japan will transform one of these smaller units into a energy power house. Just by encircling the blades, it will magnify a 3 mph wind to 9 mph or more! That’s virtually constant power being generated!
Read shtfenergy.blogspot.com at SHTF America
Let every home become a power station for the American family. Let every American SFR owner become a power producer for the local power company; selling their excess power to the power company
Funny thing is DK,I have been saying that for years. Why haven’t cities required builders of these huge tract home developments to incorporate wind and solar into the designs? Millions of homes generating power for the grid and their own use. Boggles my mind. I’m done for the night!! Tomorrow, more of your tax dollars at work being spent at my store buying junk food and energy drinks. What a country!!!
#1 – non sequiter
#2 – ASAP ! ! !
#3 – Can’t do it without trashing the free market system
#4 – Oh, yeah – put a bullet in the brain of an already weak economy. As a retired engineer I can write a book about the fragility of so-called “renewables”. In a nutshell, they cannot support any economy for long, other than an 18th century subsistence farming economy.
Long ago at M.I.T. there was a quiz they used to give: “Calculate the energy budget for a coal fired steam device that will take a load of 100 pounds to orbit.”
Do I need to explain?
It is not about whether alternative energy can power the entire country. It whether or not your can meet YOUR individual needs.
You have the collective mindset. If solar can take care of your own needs, it does not matter what else it can or can not do.
Jim: 1) Issuing gold and silver certificates while the table is tilted in favor of the uber rich and GB’s would only transfer all 8100 TONS of American gold to them.
BAD IDEA!
Right now all they are getting are fiat dollars which they can still convert to gold, but they cannot access American gold which is still a source of OUR wealth.
What WE should do is make the FED buy ALL US debt (rather than disbanding it) instead of just enough to protect their banking corporations.
That way, in case of default all they have is toilet paper.
4.) Hydrocarbons get a One Trillion Dollar tax subsidy every year. Eliminate the tax advantages for hydrocarbons and alt fuels could compete; or transfer 10% of that tax subsidy to homeowners every year and WE could be energy self sufficient in ten years.
Solar is now 90% efficient!
shtfenergy.blogspot.com
D.Kidd what I mean by having our government issue dollars in silver/gold is reverse from what they do. Instead of selling tokens of 5 ounces of silver with a face value of 25 cents they need to sell a 1 ounce silver coin valued at $200. The coin then has some tangible value. It gives the coins holder 2 chances – bullion in case of hyper inflation and serious fiat value in deflation. It would be a win win and the government could even raise some money doing it – my God they printed what – 4 Trillion in the last 3 years why not mint $300b for the people?
Agree if they eliminated some subsidies it would help. Solar is only “just” becoming viable right now and only because of high prices on electric. They outsource the production jobs to China but they can’t outsource the installs!
Jim: I hear and understand what you say, but as long as the rest of the world is on fiat money, and as long as the table is tilted by a system that funnels wealth to the GB’s and Uber Rich, its a bad idea.
Treasury would use the gold WE own to make (1)coins or (2)buy silver bullion to make silver coins. Either way the wealth flows to the GB’s and Uber Rich just as it does now, except they would be draining real wealth from America instead of toilet paper.
As long as International Trade is managed by, and for the benefit of the GB’s, and fiat money is used by other nations, gold and silver coins or bullion backed money; paper or digital, is financial suicide for US.
Better a shortage of toilet paper in the US Treasury, rather than a shortage of gold and or silver.
Jim, if you have not come to realize the government will do NOTHING that benefits the people or jeopardize the bankster monopoly of monetary control, nothing else you say can be taken seriously.
Watched a video that said Wells Fargo is under for 45 trillion; BofA under for 42 trillion..
That 447 billion won’t touch any of their money problems.
Raising the energy taxes–won’t that come back to hit the consumer??
Is that something the family having trouble buying Libby’s corn @ 80 cents a can needs to hear??
JJ: Eliminating subsidies (corporate welfare) does not raise energy taxes on consumers. It eliminates favorable tax treatment for investors and producers.
I submit that with oil at $100+/- bbl, the major oil companies and other hydrocarbon producers do not need tax incentives to pursue a profit.
Capitalists always want free markets except when it costs them welfare benefits from the people.
Let supply and demand rule the markets for energy. EXXON does not need welfare; neither does Peabody Coal for that matter.
@DK
You use the term subsidies. Is that merely a deferred tax liability or is the government actually taking tax dollars and providing it to the companies?
If xyz oil obtains it’s income from the sale of gasoline, why wouldn’t any tax increase simply be passed on to the consumer as a “cost of goods sold” expense?
“Eliminating subsidies (corporate welfare) does not raise energy taxes on consumers.”
Actually, it will to an extent. Corporations always pass on the costs and build those costs into the price.
Last year the national budget deficit was $1.3 trillion. Last year ……
Hydrocarbon producers received a TRILLION subsidy in the form of tax free income on a
portion of their revenue from the American taxpayer.
China received a $300 billion subsidy from the American taxpayer under FREE TRADE.
Mexico received a $100 billion dollar subsidy under NAFTA.
Illegals received a $300 billion subsidy from American taxpayers for suppressing American wages and taking American jobs.
People WE have a WELFARE problem in this country and I am not talking about the 46 million Americans on food stamps or the 16 million Americans on UI!!!!.
BIG OIL and BIG COAL are the BIGGEST welfare recepients in America!
Then there are 30 of the biggest American companies, like GE, who paid no income taxes while each of them made many billions of dollars in profit!
Yet while Congress tells Americans they must take cuts in SSI and Medicare, they gave $1.5 TRILLION in subsidizes to “special interests”.
Its time for these criminals in DC to understand that WE are the special interests in America!
Sir,
Raising taxes is always a very bad idea.
OQ / POA: Eliminating corporate welfare is not raising taxes on consumers. Those subsidies are already passed along to the American taxpayer, who is the consumer, in the form of national deficits.
These are not deferred tax liabilities. These are tax incentives like the “depletion allowance” which allows them to write down (or shelter) a percentage of their income from the mineral as if the mineral or oil deposit was depreciating from use over the economic life of the project.
Take away the trillion dollar hydrocarbon subsidy and let them compete in the open market with alt energy head to head; if they can.
True competition ALWAYS breeds lower prices.
Texan Patriot: Why should hydrocarbon companies get more favorable tax treatment that other forms of energy?
It only “raises” the taxes of energy producers by including ALL of their earned income from a mine or well every year, instead of allowing them to shelter a portion of that income which is given tax free status.
maybe consumers should be allowed to shelter 20% of their income every year AFTER all other tax deductions like the hydrocarbon industry.
Raising taxes? Thats BS. Eliminate loopholes.
The powers to be will “hold on” until the last piece of paper and last drop of ink are used to print. The rich will always be rich and the poor will always be poor. However, its the working/middle class that will be crushed. Inflation will kill the middle class…”death by a thousand cuts”…Personally, I don’t see this lasting another 5-10 years before something major happens. I think the total end game and thought is population reduction. This planet needs about 2-3 billion people elminated to continue the game……Welcome Iran. Keep prepping people.
I believe you are right on, bro!
A delay of the inevitable is good for one thing – more time to prepare & more time to wake up more sheeple so they can start preparing too.
Of course we’ll all lose more hair and develop about 35 ulcers while we wait.
I don’t think we’ll have an “AHA” moment of economic collapse. I think we will die a slow economic death over 4-5 years.
Mr B, I agree that more time means more time to prepare. I also think it gives a new generation of up and comers a whole new chance to develop the entitlement mentality. Short of a major disaster, I agree, it’s to be a slow painful death. Peace
Claymation. That is the downside to waiting. More & more folks on the public dole. Pro’s & Con’s both ways. But either way, it’s gonna be ugly.
Any one interested in pooling their money & starting their own country somewhere? Maybe we can buy a Caribbean Island real cheap, relocate those unwilling to work & take it over.
Mr. Blutasky,
Yes, count me in. We could form a new “Galt’s Gulch” — the hidden town in Ayn Rand’s novel “Atlas Shrugged”.
My guess would be that in the future there will be numerous Red states that will secede from the U.S.A. and form their own country, based on our original consitution. Most likely the middle of the country (Red state and traditional values) will break off and form a new country consisting of several former states.
you are starting to sound a little bit like “john galt”..and it sounds like a great proposal.
The entitlement mentality crowd is already alive and kicking. You see them on OWS wanting more and offering less. That will likely be the group that launches us into SHTF territory once they decide their peaceful protest need to grow violent.
it wont be ows who launches us into shtf, it will be the Pigs who instigate it
More time to prepare. Use it wisely. Spend now for long-life big-ticket items that you can expect to need later, along with the three “B’s. I’m not too sangui9ne about slow decline. The plan clearly is to degrade the dollar in such a way that middle-class incomes will rise slower than prices. That’s Keynesian. And that’s the best case. The worst case is that a Black Swan appears, and things to to SHTF in a week or less. Remember the ridicule that followed Don Rumsfeld’s comment about “unknown unknowns”? That was ignorant people failing to appreciate the possibility of Black Swans.
more time will just lead to more foreclosures, more jobs lost, more pain and more homelessness, this needs to collapse quickly so as to wake everyone up, and then we can rebuild
Slow decline is pretty much what we’re looking at.
The good news, as you’ve said, is that you can find a place to ride it out if you haven’t already. It also means that there won’t be this sudden huge zombie migration in all directions.
The bad news is that it’s going to hurt.
hey, Mac, strange thing, my comment is not visible with the “waiting for moderation” tag, but when I try to post it again, server says I already posted it?
Thanks giurza, I will check that out…sometimes shtfplan has a mind of it’s own…
Giurza and Mac,
Be careful, Big brother is watching you-us.
Hi Mac.
Giurza, how’s news in Lithuania? Be safe my friend.
oh, hi manos, I posted new dev in Lithuania in the previous article of SHTF (I’ll copy paste it below)
I hope you are well manos, I watch Greek situation very intently and it seems bad, so bad that it is beyond comprehension… but I know exactly that feeling, we have copypasted politicians here in Lithuania. even if the country is burning, they will not care for anything other than their own purses…
here is summary of Lithuanian shit:
Lithuania is sinking very fast now. we have armed and unarmed robberies going rampant, very brutal beatings, home intrusions. it is so widespread that mainstream media has been publishing the “self defence lessons” all over the place. however, in Lithuania you’ll get in very big doodoo if you kick the bad guy’s a$$… police state all over, just that police is doing mafia’s work, not police’s…
the govmen are intending to raise land tax so high that people will be forced to sell it on low prices, and then they will be able to buy it up. intention is 200-300% higher land tax, and I supose you all know what that means for the grassroots… now at least we could go by our own produce, not so after that tax… heating is up 30% this winter because of Mr Putkin’s political moves… (thank God it is nothing of my concern since I have wood stove) food is up – fish 20%, meat 15%, milk 10-15% etc… it is bad as hell, and I have no idea how much more we can take it, but apparently lithuanian sheople are quite ok with all that… many peripheral towns and communities are going broke (or hanging just by their toenails)
it is just like FerFAL said about Argentina – you start to notice that surroundings and people are not what they were before. I mean Lithuania was always in a world of shit, since day 1, but now it seems that every last bit of civilization is going down the drain.
doctors are fleeing to Germany, public health system is in tatters.
and even weather is so bad, that agriculture is faltering. I know, because I’m in it! draughts, torrential rains, produce either scarce or going bad because of too much moisture…
one example, in the old days, we had this one day in May (Day of St Stanislav) that was a day for planting onions. it was common knowledge that onions planted on this day would grow big and healthy. not so anymore… you have to find a much earlier date for it… found out this year 🙁
and to add salt on the wound, USA is aimed at Iran, and a big badda boom might be coming world way…
Good article Marc,
We have spoken about this before and I feel that the collapse has already begun; the S has already HTF. The only thing missing is how long will it take to run its course.
Will it progress like falling off a cliff or more like a slow glide to the ground. I suspect it will take the slow glide approach as we see in Greece now simply because the politicians will do everything within their power to postpone the end game; more kick the can down the road.
But for the sheeple, not much they can do other than prepare.
sheeple ,by their very nature, cannot and will not prepare
A Black Swan can end it all for us at anytime (an attack on Iran this month?). Oil disrupted for an extended period? Or more and more inflationary stimulus to drag it out? No one knows. Well, the head Globalists probably know.
OF, I agree, one slip and the trip down hill goes from a slow pace to a rapid head over heels fall and probably a head smacking the rocks at the bottom.
I love Faber, scary though his views are. He’s quite correct, of course.
I wonder if he believes the entire world will collpase, or mainly just the western world and western civilization. Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t the USSR pretty much sail through the Great Depression? They had pretty much reached the bottom, already.
This will be much more worse than the Great Depression. Different demographics, different geographics (urban, not rural and small town). Different attitudes than back then. Plus we are talking about the breakdown of the entire system, not just a correction. A new dark ages, perhaps.
I think u are right on Fuzzy. Back in the depression people had values for the most part. We have devolved into such an entitlement attitude as a country (viewers of this site excepted of course) that it will be unlike any disaster in history. Look at what a lot of the folks in new orleans did, just waited for someone to take care of them. Folks will prolly be begging to get into fema camps.
I have a friend who has a friend who works for FEMA. She says that FEMA is broke and that the the government is going to slowly wean people off food stamps with smaller and smaller payments.
It will be WAY different than the great depression.
30% of our nation has an entitlement mentality. They expect everything to be given to them and adjusted for inflation. They know nothing of self sufficiency and hard work. Nor do they want to.
When the govt money stops flowing, they will go absolutely ballistic.
many already are going ballistic..those who have used up their enemployment benefits and still are jobless and do not qualify for any other entitlements other than food stamps and welfare-which inflation is doing a good job eating up.
Mr B, How can you say such a thing? BTW, aren’t the Kardashians getting a divorce? And isn’t Lindsey Hilton supposed to be going to jail for drugs or something? How about them Broncos? Beating the Raiders and all….
Old fuzzy,
I will have to agree with you on the values of today, But then again let me see 99% of the people have no values!! Let me ask you this we was the last time you saw a teenager opening a door for a lady?
When was the last time told you thank you sir?
When was the last time you saw a teenager that showed signs of pride in everything they did?
Please tell me there is hope for this country, because what I have seen we are reall phucked.
DPS
I agree with Faber, get yourself as much in PM as you can and a farm out in the sticks.
I too believe we are in the thick of it now and there isn’t much any of us are going to do to stop it from sliding off the edge of a cliff. It is surely taking time as TPTB continue to put off the inevitable. Good for us as we have more time to put up that fence and razor wire and gather those likeminded folks around us.
The set up is the “perfect storm”… economy is teetering and all it would take is one extremely large natural disaster…
More time is certainly welcomed. But, at this point, it could be anytime. The answer to it all, in my estimation, is to be the change you want to see. Faber is certainly right about the farm. However, it is not necessary to have a farm out in the boonies. Suburban subdivisions could easily turn into giant farms. I recently saw an old oriental man who created a fantastic vegetable garden behind a strip mall on an unused piece of land. If all suburbanites planted one fruit tree this year, instead of an ornamental, there would be fruit to spare. And, if these suburbanites got off the couch and grew some of the vittles they are eating we might solve the obesity problem that plagues this country.
The specter of social unrest and violence is unsettling. If that is what you want to see, buy guns and ammo. But, if you want a peaceful transition to the new world, grow some food and be prepared to feed you neighbors. Beat your sword into a plow. Remember, the greatest victories are won without firing a shot.
Semper Fi
Grasshopper, when you can snatch the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave………
Semper Fi,
I like it!
This from the very lips of Our Would be IMF NWO BilderBoyBugger Global Banker Enslavers Death Dealing – Enforcer! Wrong Baby Killer!
@Semper Fi I’ll turn in my Rifle when the United States Marine Corps is DisArmed and DisBanded as was Suggested by the Pentagon, in the 90’s! As well as the US ARMY and LOCAL Police!
Till then I’m keeping my rifle well oiled and ready over my door!
An armed society is a Free society!
In a Fascist Government the People Fear the Government!
In a Free Republic the Government Fears the People!
Nice try Baby Killer! ;0P pssszzzt
Those who beat their swords into plowshares often end up plowing for those who do not. In a perfect world, yes, but planet Earth has never been and will never be perfect. Any tool can also be used as a weapon.
Agree totally with the tree/garden thing, though. Many suburbanites have been trained to think of anybody who has a garden as a hillbilly who “doesn’t belong in a neighborhood like this”. Then they are off to the store to pay $1 each for bell peppers and more chemicals tr make their “lawn” green.
I’m the hillbilly and my next door neighbor is obsessed with his useless plants and “lawn”. Don’t remember any complaints about free fresh veggies, though.
I just want a piece of land, a log cabin, some candles and a cow. Let the whole damn world fall apart for all I care anymore. Tired of being scared, tired of being stuck and just plain tired. There will come a point, I think, where we just walk away from it all. Inching ever closer…..
MLG: I read you loud and clear. Got the same mind set here. We’ve prepped as much as we can afford….now it’s just the waiting. I will still keep my ear to the ground, but we’ve decided we’re just going to live life to the fullest between now and then and not go down without a fight.
According to the U.N. united nations AGENDA 21 global New Land Wilderness Reclaimation Law… 3 out of 4 of your desires to “Have” are NOW Illegal for all Goyim Debt Slaves – meaning all of you !
I can let ya have the Candles at 80% Carbon Credit Tax! Everytime you Light it though! ;0P
It’s the best we can do… polar bear babies are drowning ya know! ;0P pssszzzzt
Signed : Your IMF NWO BILBOYBUGGER Banker Masters
I have a debate with myself every month before I schedule the mortgage payment. Sometimes the debate is so animated I have thoughts about having Okie promote it and charging admission. 😉
What Red Leader said.
This is Gold Leader standing by.
Roger that my brother!
Good article as always Mac! Last week I posted this information and am posting it again, cause not everyone reads the same articles on here! HEATING: When the SHTF!!! Coal and wood burning are great! When running low or don’t have any…stock up on 91% rubbing alchol! 2.50 for a 32oz bottle at Wal-Mart! 2-3 oz will burn warm and clean for 30 min. That is 30min. of light and heat! Just pour it into any tin can and drop in a match.
Shane: Thanks for the tip…you’ll never know how many lives you save with this info. Keep it coming.
Shane, that is awesome. I have been stocking up on it for medicinal purposes, but now there is another use for it. Makes sense, just never thought of it. Keep the information coming
Won’t the Coleman fuel do the same thing??? Soak the fuel or alcohol in cotton balls..burns clean…my gallon(128 oz) of Coleman cost $10.
I do have a Coleman camper cooker, but can use the fuel for heat if needed.
Nice idea, check out the instructable website for about 30 plans on pocket stoves from pop cans using methanol and rubbing alcohol. Has lots of plans in pdf to download. Its pay type but if you cut and paste you can do it free.
Shane ~
THANK YOU!!!
Living in Canada, currently in a place without a fireplace or woodstove, lack of heat is one of my biggest concerns!!! This is excellent information.
Just double-checking – is any extra ventilation required for this?
Daisy, not really it burns fairly clean. Grab an empty tuna can, set the can in a grill, or fire pit, or whatever you can use, and pour 2oz in the tuna can. Try it out in your basement or garage and see for yourself!
Shane $2.50 for 30 minutes? That is incredibly expensive! That’s $60 a day! That is not cost effective by any strerch of the imagination.
$1800 a month people is not the way to heat and light your home!!!
Wait a minute! My bad, that’s $5 an hour, $120 a day, $3600 a month.
Go wind. Go solar.
That’s not what I said. 2.50 for a 32 or so oz bottle. 2-3 oz for 30 mins.
Shane: Ok sorry, my bad, but give 3oz, 30 minutes and multiply by 10 for a 32 oz bottle and you get 300 minutes or 5 hours;
say times 5 for a day and you still get what, $12.50 a day times 30 equals more than $360 a month.
That still seems a bit much for what would be a small “local” heat and light source. That doesn’t seem to me to be a good allocation of resources.
At my mining shack, I initially bought solar landscaping lights, charged them during the day and moved them into the shack (26×13) at night.
They didn’t provide any heat but they provided enough light so I could get around the shack. That was 12 years ago.
LED’s are available now and I think rechargeable LED’s would be a much better value.
Does anyone here know of or read Bix Weir? He sent out an email this morning telling silver investors to get ready. that all the predictions about silver and gold were coming full circle, and fiat currency is ready to collapse, due to things happening within the COMEX…I’ll try to post the email here…
From Bix Weir…If we get past this week without some sort of global disruptive event then feel free to throw those “slings and arrows” at me because EVERYTHING I watch is flashing RED ALERT!
Now is the time to head to the BUNKER if you have one and batten down the hatches.
I have said it many times…
“Un-backed fiat money will not survive more than a week after silver and gold are allowed to trade freely. ”
We are there so expect SOMETHING WICKED to spring from the twisted mind of the Bad Guys very soon (more than likely this week!). It might be framed as a terrorist attack, WW3, asteroid event, computer/electronic problem or a huge financial hiccup that is unrecoverable.
For Private Road Subscribers I have prepared a rescue plan if the internet shuts down or the site gets hacked but it involves a horse and buggy delivering your paper form of a monthly Road to Roota Letter so don’t expect instant coverage.
The TIME LINE is still right on track and the world should look VERY different come Jan 1st.
I’ve read this guys emails for months, and he DOES seem to be right on the money…so anyone else think there is anything to this? I’ll admit, I know next to nothing about silver, the COMEX, etc…All I know is to buy the shiny stuff and hold on to it!! LOL!!
SML,
You’ve got the important part….buy it and hold it.
The “why” or “what for” is OK to understand, but not necessary. The fact you know what money IS and ISN’T is the key.
LIberty 33 location
…or the gulag….
We are experiencing a slow fall, from the bottom up, and the top down. The super rich are getting out of the banks and the funds, and are now buying farm land, gold, silver, and anything with intrinsic value. The globalists have decided that there are way too many useless eaters on this fragile planet, and they will let the system weed us out…survival of the fittest. This fall will take place, after the government asks us to surrender our 401s and savings, securing funds with a “50 year T-bond” (transferable to your beneficiaries) and one can borrow against it with interest, taxes, and penalties paid.
Just saw this.
To view at Youtube: Morning Joe Crew Discusses Wall Street Profits Under Obama
Some interesting information…
“Wall St. Made More Money In 2.5 Years Of Obama Than 8 Years Of Bush… Sounds like their campaign contributions paid off very well.”
Video is also at Real Clear Politics
in Videos section
Heading: Wall Street Made More Money in 2.5
….gonna party like its 19-99!
I do not agree with this assesment, I look around and see how the government is getting ready for something really bad to happen. The signs are everywhere and can not be ignored.
I don’t know what the end game will be, but I do know that this will not be a slow and painful death, we already had that, now we just have to die. I do not listen to what others have to say anymore. With all due respect, even the most intelligent and respected prognostocators, can’t wrap their heads around this. I could never begin to debate these people, but sometimes you have to think simple; black and white. I stay on my path and hope for the best, but prepare for the worst at any moment.
The world is on fire and any one event could trigger the ultimate decimation of our society, as we know it.
Justice100–you may be wrong–but there’ll be two of us if you are.
i keep saying the collapse will take time. It wont be overnight……so to my fellow preppers keep prepping and stay vigilante.
“stay vigilante” Ha! I love it.
Just how many balls do you think a juggler can keep in the air at one time? Governments and Central Bankers have a lot of balls in the air right now. All its gonna take is one of them to drop a ball and all hell is going to break loose.
Thus far they have been able to keep it up, but continuing to add debt balls and interest balls is going to lead to all the balls on the floor.
The American savings rates have fallen for 2 years now as the citizens have less to spend. Most know something isn’t right and they can’t make any money on savings so they are spending it on tangible items.
If they knew what was happening they would be spending on barter items and food, but most are buying flat screen TV’s. Three years ago I don’t think Sam’s Club and Costco were selling freeze dried food. That proves prepping is going main stream. It takes a lot of demand for those two companies to slot items.
While the could keep things going with the printing press. The governments and Central Banker can’t keep a lid on the anger and frustrations of the Citizenry. We are already reaching a flash point. Just wait until the juggler drops the ball..
Old Fuzzy:
Spot on with both posts.
Funny that you brought up the possibility of a new dark age. I was just reading about Italy’s debt problems this morning and how they’re “too big to fail and too big to save”. If Italy goes belly up, the EU is doomed, and it very well might drag the world’s economies down with it. If that’s the case, the collapse of Italy just might be the triggering event for the fall of Western Civilization. 1500 years ago, it was the fall of Rome that triggered a 300 year dark age for Europe.
Is there some possible irony here, or is the amateur historian just reaching?
Have a great day,
Mal
Mal
Amateaur historian or otherwise, I think you might be on to something there…
According to the records on tree rings, during the dark ages, it really was DARK in that there was not much light and it was much cooler. We also had the plague (disease) culling the population. When the nobles and other royal types lost their workforce, the military types went out and pillaged and looted through villages for the royals (and personal gain of course).
I don’t see how much different things would be for us if the financial house of cards comes down. Well, except that people back then were used to hard work and they weren’t rioting in the streets because their SNAP card didn’t work and there was no electricity. 😉
Another difference Fed Up between us (Americans) and back then, we are armed to the teeth! It will be easier to pillage other countries for the “nobles” gain, but not here.
I have been building up a huge library of thousands of volumes for over 40 years just in case. My computer is downloading technical books 24/7. First set of backup hard drives are EMP-proofed (too many terabytes to put on DVD).
Whey hey…love the rubbing alcohol tip. Over here in the UK there are many many homes without chimneys…and get this burring wood and coal is illegal under the terms of the clean air act. God how I hate politicians. More tips always welcome.
Sam not Sam and Montana Mike. I have checked your comments regarding hoarding in the Uk being illegal. Both you and I are right. In general it is ok, until the ptb say it is not ok. They can apparently declare the hoarding of any item illegal if they decide that that item will become really scarce, they also have confiscation powers. I knew I was right to keep my mouth shut about my secret cupboard lol
Take care all and remember any advice to a relatively new prep per living in an inane political system is always welcomed. X
britain is totally out of control. I really do not understand how any self respecting human being could live there and tolerate the abuse of the government and the illuminati willingly. sickening , totally sickening.
Faber is right that the government will try to create an enemy, in order to distract from the FACT that the government IS the enemy.
The government is a thief, violator, offender, and aggressor. It is a Tyranny that should be abolished tomorrow, as per the Declaration of Independence.
The MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX has been preparing the ground for many decades to delude people enough to think that Extraterrestrials are their next Enemy.
This is why, for example, Hollywood has never produced a single positive movie about extraterrestrials since Steven Spielberg’s Close Encounters of a Third Kind and E.T. since the late 1970s and early 1980s. It’s all about WAR since then, to keep you brainwashed.
They are preparing the ground for total global warfare.
It is absolutely frightening that they have so thoroughly brainwashed the people into not contemplating this inevitable conclusion. Even Faber does not have the wherewithal to mention this fact, even though it is the absolute truth.
They are following Goebbels’ Nazi handbook to make the lie so unbelievable that the people are forced to reconcile themselves to accepting and believing it.
It is the government itself that makes you believe that advanced intelligence from outer space will attack and incinerate this planet.
Anyways, we know what is the next fictitious enemy . . .
I bet they have gold too! Extraterrestrials are so dreadful . . . LMAO!
IT: Why the sudden defense of ET’s? Which star system are you from?
Just asking …. 🙂
I’m from Sirius if anyone cares. LOL
K-Pax myself 🙂
I suppose I hafta come clean, I’m from K-Mart. The blue light special.
(and don’t ask but DK spent a lot of time in the back room with Buzz Lightyear)
Gleaning the truth takes time and effort . . . Otherwise it is just a mystery.
The universe is approximately 14 billion (a thousand million multiplied by fourteen) years old . . .
Obviously, there are advanced civilizations millions of years more advanced than us spiritually and technologically . . .
The global military industrial complex, predicated on the oil-propelled economy, would disintegrate along with the oligarchy of the shadow government . . .
As I have stated originally on the page about the Central Bank, it’s all about control.
They would rather make advanced civilizations into the enemy than to EVER allow you to know about these advanced civilizations and their technologies.
They would rather determine upon having their oligarchy remain as our rulers, essentially the wardens of our prison planet.
Peak Oil is a real phenomenon. Please read the erudite Bud Conrad’s book on the coming world economic crisis.
And the advanced civilizations are completely obsessed with us to attack our little planet of war-mongering, oil-obsessed tribes of freaks. Certainly, they must be our next enemy, as Faber might say! 🙂
Just watch Mars Attacks!, Independence Day, Signs, Transformers, Men In Black, etc. Any other examples? They want you to get the picture, so you may know who should be the next enemy!
Ever heard the Reagan speech at the United Nations about the external threat? Don’t let his sense of humor fool you! LOL.
DK: Oh, let’s not forget of course, The War of the Worlds!
Troll Alert
Back under your Bridge Troll
A Troll by any other name is still a Troll, The ET comment gave you away!
The German says:
October 5, 2011 at 8:32 am
I have inside contacts!!! And I’ve just been warned of a MAJOR announcement to be broadcast today!!! It’s going to get very serious here within 24 hrs. In the US, Europe and The UK!! They can’t stop what’s about to be leaked. The Global Financial Collapse has been a smoke screen. All this nonsense has been a scam to deflect and suppress the biggest scam of all!! What the worlds governments have been trying to hide for several years has been set for ‘announcement’ There’s been a Major Intel breech. In a few short hours, an announcement to WE, the people, will be made on every TV and radio station around the world, that we are in fact being led and governed by, a rouge group of extraterrestrial muppets! Be alert! There out there! Muppets!!!
Keep your families safe and avoid all muppets at all costs. as Bob Marley once sang. “No Muppets, no crimes”
You get the picture now right!! Muppets out, real people in!!!
Then, I will be safe with Alf?
Sometimes I wish the Klingons would just come and conquor us!
I vot for Borg domination. 7 of 9 is HOTTTT!!!!!
+1 LMAO!!!!
Watched the convicted lobbyist Abramoff (spelling?) on 60 minutes Sunday. If you watched it and still think that this is your government, you should be flat lining. He states that he “owned” 100 congressmen. He says he considered himself a failure because he hadn’t got to the other 335 yet! He says that once he offered congressional staffers jobs with his company after they were thru working on the hill, and they smiled, he knew they were his. They were guarranteed triple the pay with him. They even offered him and his company stuff he hadn’t thought of. What a country. He says he spent 1 million a year on sports tickets to hand out to congress and their staffers.
American injunuity…..so to speak. brings much wampum.
It could become a situation that explodes out of control very quickly. As the article said,
“For all we know the entire system can collapse in the next 30 days, or, the full fallout may not be witnessed for several years.”
I hope we have a long time but everyone should prepare like there only is 30 days.
Just how many balls do you think a juggler can keep in the air at one time? Governments and Central Bankers have a lot of balls in the air right now. All its gonna take is one of them to drop a ball and all hell is going to break loose.
Thus far they have been able to keep it up, but continuing to add debt balls and interest balls is going to lead to all the balls on the floor.
The American savings rates have fallen for 2 years now as the citizens have less to spend. Most know something isn’t right and they can’t make any money on savings so they are spending it on tangible items.
If they knew what was happening they would be spending on barter items and food, but most are buying flat screen TV’s. Three years ago I don’t think Sam’s Club and Costco were selling freeze dried food. That proves prepping is going main stream. It takes a lot of demand for those two companies to slot items.
While the could keep things going with the printing press. The governments and Central Banker can’t keep a lid on the anger and frustrations of the Citizenry. We are already reaching a flash point. Just wait until the juggler drops the first ball..
all bullshit on this site,the sky is falling, oh wait it will take 10 yrs now.
If that’s what you think why are you here? I just wonder why people go to websites they don’t like.
You are so right PO!!!
I for instance, when popped to some Business-As-Usual/all is normal web site, I reset my computer in fear of getting that normalcy bias infection ;D
LOL!!! I like that Giurza!!!
So run along and play, adults are talkin’
Be careful there Sean your fly is down, email addy is showing
Sean:
Faber said it “COULD” take ten years. And there are those on this site that agree with him.
But then again, it could happen next week. Read up on Black Swan events and/or Chaos Theory, if you can handle the math.
I know you won’t, because you’re most likely a sh!t-for-brains, but at least you were warned.
Have a great night!
Mal
@Rainyday: Three weeks without food, water, electricity and the sheeple will be lining up to take the trains to the FEMA showers. RE: PMs. Can’t eat them. Yes they can be bartered. How long until bartering sites are up and running? How do you protect your PM’s while traveling to and from the barter site? How do you protect them at the barter site? Just trying to think through the what ifs. I’ve come to the conclusion that strength thru unity is the best approach. I don’t think that realistically I can take the RAMBO option when trying to defend against a gang of Rambos. Beans, beer, and bullets first.
You must not have enough beans, beer or bullets. The price keeps going up for metals everyday. You’re a day late and dollar short.
Long before there is a “financial collapse” Israel will attack Iran, Iran will attack US in the gulf, and WE will eliminate Iran for Israel.
Buy gold. Sell some after the attack.
Looks like it may be very soon, if they’re going to do it at all. Heard a US Under-Secretary of State tell a Chinese diplomat that the Chinese wouldn’t get the natural gas they wanted from the Iranians, because the US wouldn’t let it happen. Look at the world map and see the various places where the US has stopped the Chinese from getting energy sources and wonder how much the Chinese will tolerate.
Yep its, “China here” and “US military there” right between China and oil. Ray Charles can see it but your typical American worshipping the sphere can’t.
If China can march to it they can probably get it. If they can’t at present they will have that capability in a decade or so. This is not the same Chinese Army that crossed into North Korea in 1950. The US has global reach but the responsibility of being everywhere does not leave a lot for anywhere.
The US militaty presence in Afghanistan and Pakistan is insanity. If Afghanistan, Pakistan, China, Russia, or any combination of them get tired of our crap they could step on us like dog shit.
Hmmmm. War drums getting louder kimosabe.
And folks there you have it. Reminds me of a girl who in my younger days told me that she had to go “find herself”. My reply was not so cavalier. It came out like this, ” well hell darlin’, put down them suitcases, take both hands, grab your ass, and there you are”. She just looked at me with tears in her eyes and left. In the end, she and I were probably both better off for it. Moral to the story? There ain’t one here. I guess you could shoe horn one in by saying, “just keep on keepin’ on.” It’s all we can do.
5-10 years is a lifetime… I’m going to the bar. 🙂
Si’, I’ll bring some fine cigars.
Like to be down in Key West right now sitting in Sloppy Joe’s, smoking a handrolled cigar and sippin’ a ‘hurricane’ with the breeze comin’ through the open doors and the band playin’ some blues, my eyes half closed, didn’t have to be nowhere in particular…. God I sure do miss that!
@ B.O. Pat … and taking a late night skinny dip w/ a long legged tan beauty in the COREXIT filled Gulf of Mexico! Sounds great till your hairy parts start to melt off, your eye’s get chem burns and throat and lungs fill with mucous from the BP Corexit fumes coming off the oceans oil covered surface!
;0P Sounds Great ! Let’s All GO! WaaaaHoooo!
Silly Rabbit… them days is over courtesy of Big Oil British Petroleum and Obummer/ Soetoro our illegal alien cia banker owned prez!
Ah if it ain’t ninatrollposer. Thought you would come out from under your rock and sun yourself didn’t you. Always good to hear from a troll and a poser. Your local bus stop misses seeing you down there reconnoitering the men’s restroom.
Buy a metal detector. Move to the mountains.
If it will collapse in 5 years time I will still prepare as if it will be next month. Every week I will do more prepping no matter what happens. There always has and always will be floods, fires, earthquakes, storms and riots. Being Prepped is how to help deal with it.
This sounds semi-positive. More time to prep is wonderful.
We got a potential opportunity today. A friend from work lives in the nearby “boonies”. Through her recommendation, we have 3 potential farms that we may be able to rent, dirt cheap. They would include a home with woodstove or fireplace, cistern and septic systems, a couple of acres and a barn. Apparently most of the farms in that area are old-time family farms with more than one house on them. These places don’t get advertised – it’s word of mouth so you don’t get in without an “in”.
So, we could move to a rural township of about 6000 people and have a 40 minute commute to work, or live in a city of 150000 with a 2 minute commute.
Decisions, decisions!
Daisy: Why did you buy that eco car? Gas mileage, right?!
You will need to be “there” to get “there”. Plan to move next Spring when you and the girls can plant and settle in. Keep you gas tank full.
Don’t forget the wood stove.
Oh my gosh !!! COMMUTE !!!!
I have a wood stove…..you will love it !!!!
I know – it kinda sounds like we are being handed “Prepper Heaven”. My fingers are crossed that it works out. It would take a lot of stress off my mind of how I am going to feed us and keep us warm, should the worst happen.
Good luck with it Daisy! I live in a town of 7000 and love it.
AZ Ready: Well, I hope your wood stove is working because YOU must be freezing your ass off about now. Or do you have the wife on the bicycle running the electric generator? 🙂
And Daisy, don’t forget to make a greenhouse from 2×4’s and plastic sheeting from Home Depot.
Just saying.
DK, not to bad up here. We are only at 4000ft and the warmth from the lake creates a cushion effect in the valley here. Most of the crappy weather goes around us. Flagstaff and the plateaus around us had snow, we had rain all day.
I like the wife with bicycle idea although she won’t. Guess we’ll just cuddle up together to stay warm, if you get my drift!
I’ve got a Husqvarna 460 XTorque. Will cut & split wood for food!
Will provide food for cut wood – sounds like we might have a deal! 😀
The five to ten years started 5-10 years ago. The fiat ponzi is in its last stages of implosion. Existing paper
Money will be utterly worthless within the next 2 years.
Mike F: Yeah, you are probably right Mike. Why hold on to that fiat money? Send it to US!!!
durango,
I am sending to the shiny store (AU & AG) instead, and have prepped heavily with food, water, clothing, guns and ammo! 🙂
Prep like there is no tommorrow, live life like there is a tommorrow
Things are going to be looking like the Book of Eli very soon!
I wonder what the story line will be the day it happen’s.The end of freedom as we know it?How long it take’s to come to one end? What a question.What to do to prolong the end? Man the end in just that the end.Time shortend or forelonged.Does it matter?I hope we are better then all of this. I know it has waxed old with me to see what is going on here in America.But being ready and prepped is only a small part of what ,we as people can do and should do.I want the greatness of people like you all to shine the light of hope .Not just for us,which is nice to hear each of your thought’s .Believe me it help’s me.But the the younger people will know the truth all-so.
Remember, Wednesday the 9th, first NATION wide test of the emergency broadcast system. 30 seconds of test period, every radio station, every Television broadcast, don’t know about cable channels, but for 30 seconds it will be completely in the hands of FEMA and others.
What was wrong with the old way? Tsunami’s happen to fast? Tell Montana that.
What are we being prepared for.
This has been in the works for two years.
Mac, I’ve posted multiple times and things are buggy?
Terry
Just more control over every facet of life..
soon they will test an EAS over the internet and all cell communications..imo..thus proving that they control everything..just like the old tv show Outer Limits..
remember how recently dhs targeted purchases at army/navy stores..keepin an eye out for all the preppers and survivalists as well..
I think my tv watches me!
Yeah, those sexy gals on Fox keep winking at me.
I think we are being prepared for an EMP attack from China or some terrorist and/or martial law after the economic collapse, IMHO.
Get prepared people, time and others may not be on our side.
Get off the grid ready and ready for whatever is coming, whatever it is, it won’t be good.
Giurza and Manos, I feel your pain, and you are right on.
The irony in all this is,money has no real value, it is just a medium of exchange, the only things that have real value are land,commodities,and labor.
Hookers still like it.
Not quite.
One of the properties of (real) money is “A store of value”…..that is, you can stick it in a cookie jar, and come back in 20 years and it will exchange for about the same amount of goods/services as when you stuck in in the jar originally.
This particular definition is WHY paper money generally fails to qualify AS money, it is merely currency…..because they can’t resist the temptation to print the whiz out of it, and reduce it’s value (inflation).
We tend to forget that about REAL money, since we’re pretty much forced to use the paper of the kingdom in everyday exchange.
I’ve seen the argument that gold and silver ONLY have value because someone assigns it so…..but you could make the same argument for ANYTHING….what ‘value’ is MORE land if I already have all I can farm ?
What value is food if I already have 5 years worth in storage ?
And since food does have a shelf life, one could say additional food beyond 3-4-5 years is actually worthless….unless I trade it for something….and here come that “medium of exchange/store of value” thing…..money…..and WHY man developed it…..so I could store the money, instead my perishable crop of watermelons, and hopefully buy food/etc back down the road if my garden has a lean year, or I run out of bullets, or whatever.
So REAL money does have value….unfortunately, we don’t have much real money in circulation because the banksters find it far easier to print and fool the public versus digging it up out of the ground.
~~~And since food does have a shelf life, one could say additional food beyond 3-4-5 years is actually worthless~~~
You don’t prep like I do…obviously. Part of prepping is extending that shelf life.
Don’t know how you prep JJ….I do have long term food storage in the form of Mt House freeze dried stuff, as well as dehydrated stuff and whole grains.
My statement was simply one of example. For example, you got a way to store fresh watermelons for years ? ( I really LIKE watermelon ).
Or say, for example, you have enough food stored for you, your family, and your whole town ( like a BIG warehouse full ), enough to last you all a lifetime.
Then what ?
Andy ~ Are you storing seeds? Once I get my food storage back up to where I want it, garden stuff is where the rest of my money is going. 🙂 Watermelons don’t get much fresher than those you grow in your backyard!
It gets cold up here, so I just keep cutting splitting and stacking
Amen VRF. Went into this winter with 12 cords cut/split/stacked, which is about 2 years worth for us. Got to get back at it soon to replace what we will burn this winter for 2013-14.
Look Up “Fueless Generators” you all can build your own out of old bicycle parts and supplies from HomeDepot and Napa autoparts!
Anyone can adapt the plans to whatever they desire , even home heating… check it out!
http://home.earthlink.net/~drestinblack/generator.htm
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread328069/pg1
http://pesn.com/2010/02/07/9501610_WITTS_self-looped_2000-watt_demo/
the fueless generator with wind and solar hooked up to a few Deep Cycle Batteries all together you would be virtually grid free, even on cloudy windless days.
Very affordible construction costs! Worth the effort!
I’m designing my own fueless heater as you read this!
Stay Warm!
http://jnaudin.free.fr/steorn/indexen.htm
in theory fuelles generators are possible!
If generators could run without fuel, someone would be building them and making millions. This is pie in the sky kid stuff.
The one thing that electricity does not do well is heat. To consider solar electric as a heating source is a joke and you clearly know nothing about living off the grid.
We live full time off the grid with 2.1 KW Solar amd 1.4 KW of wind. 50 Kw of battery storage. In another two weeks I will have another 2.4 KW of solar hooked up. I would never consider heating with solar electric. It is all about making your very expensive batteries last a long time by not cycling them too deep.
Ninaorket please stop with the ignorance. You don’t have a clue except what you read on the internet. I bet you don’t even own a solar panel.
Yes I do… all my vehicles have two solar panels and voltage regulators on them… my car has a spare battery attached wired to the system as a back up… and I’m building a Oil friction heater which is run by a fuelless generator run on electro magnet repulsion wheel!
;0) attack me if you want , ohhh my feelings are so hurt… I didn’t write this for just you @ Red Leader dick wad… this system works , just as the electric car works and has been around since the time of Tesla… piss and moan all ya want @Red Leader… ;0P psssszzzt!
There is more than one way to gain free energy ya puss!
It’s a-holes like you who would be still claiming the world is flat if Columbus didn’t say fuck it and go for his lil’ boat trip!
Have you tried it??? No You haven’t!
So stfu @Red Leader!
Red Leader, don’t pay any attention to that troll and poser. On many occassions he apparently forgets to take his meds.
Ninaorket, to quote one famout pre law student, “Point of Order”. Solar panels do not use voltage regulators, they use charge controllers. The best charge controllers are the MPPT type.
As far as your fuelless generator project, you better check with your mom first. I don’t think she would want her basement blown up.
She should try using all that hot air as a form of fool,oops, I mean fuel!
I was reading the plans for this lil solar heater and I thought it sounded kinda neat.
http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2007/04/26/almost-free-garage-heat-just-drink-a-lot-of-soda/
I love stuff like this, but it would be more effective with a fan of some sort. I just haven’t got that part figured out yet. 🙂
“Energy cannot be created or destroyed only transformed from one form to another”.
You can’t get more out then you put in.
Kevin2,
I think the theory is the energy already exists ( at least that was Telsa’s theory ), and one needs to find a way to tap into it……in the same way solar, wind and hydro energy exist, and we have figured ways to tap into them.
If you had told folks 150-200 years ago that you could convert sunshine into lighting/machine power in the middle of the night, you surely would have met ridicule, so let’s don’t jump on that bandwagon TOO quick.
BUT until someone comes out with a practical, working, you-can-buy-one-now version, I’m still stuck with my little 15% efficient solar conversion and burning wood for heat.
TnAndy
Maybe too many years in a conventional power plant for me to grasp Telsa’s theory. The guy was the brains behind the grid today.
When someone comes up with this pie in the sky stuff I think of nations beyond the direct reach of Wall Street and if it was possible why would Russia and China not have it? The gasoline carburator that GM “invented” of the 1960s that people claimed the oil companies bought (I been told EVERYBODY knows it) that gets 50 MPG is an example. The USSR capable of sending satellites into orbit could not duplicate it because they respect patient rights. Think about what it would do for a nations military.
People have personal messed up economics and blame everyone but themselves. It’s the cost of oil from the oil companies. The bank lowered the interest rates so low I borrowed. Yep people have been thrown curve balls beyond their control but they threw many themselves.
BORROWED TIME – Treat every day from this day forward as a prepper gift… we all know we’re living on borrowed time. Paper “fiat” currency such as the dollar , only holds it’s value as long as the sheeple believe it has “real” value , only 3.8 % of the world 7 billion population own any pm’s silver gold – physically own it and countries are already trying to control that such as france… china has launched a buy pm national campaign to it’s people… hmmm I wonder why???
the writing is on the wall folks… buy your silver gold now while ya still can… of course After your preps are solid for shtf scenarios for your area of the woods!
Buy now , and keep your wealth intact!
It’s all downhill from here!
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ;0P psszzt
Heads up for all! Lots of armor on flatbeds heading east on i80 through Nebraska over the last few days. 155 howitzers and APC’s bradleys and M113’s several Abrams too. Any body else seen them? At least a regiment of armor so far in 3 days, any manuvers planned out East? Thought you all should know.
AMERICAN CHILDREN ONCE AGAIN SENT TO KILL FOR ISRAELI JEWS… Israeli Jews are once again manipulating Dictating to the IMF CIA illegal alien American White House and the Israeli jew bribed US Congress that Americans must not talk to IRAN of PEACE! That It is Illegal to even talk to them… wtf! ;0P
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/11/2011114635741836.html#.TriKVhj1-g8.hotmail
How long this time will the Common American Citizen allow the Jews of IsRael to Dictate American foreign policy and send off american children to their deaths!?
http://www.goodnewsaboutgod.com/studies/political/jews/hate_victims.htm
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/expelled.htm
iT’S TIME WE cLEANED OUT cONGRESS AND THE wHITE hOUSE of Israeli Jew corruption and bribery! 60 Billion a year and free weapons and tons of ammo is what we give them so they can commit genocide!
For shame america for shame!
I have been hearing that anti-semitism is on the rise. Now I see it is true.
There is a SERIOUS rise in anti-semitism…I first noticed it on FB with hard-leftist high school friends, and there has been a distinct slant in academia. I have seen a lot of it in the prepping fever swamps, including here. Sam Not Sam had a nice go-round the other day with some dude (eeder?) who just seems to be a neo-nazi troll–all he posts is anti-semitic stuff. It’s the first time I’ve seen someone throw down on it on this site. I’ve seen other sites where the neo-nazi trolls get on at the same time and post back and forth in what seems to be a coordinated propaganda push. A good number of Nina’s posts are anti-Jewish, but he kinda hates everyone: cops, jews, women, feds, Daisy…..or wait, maybe not. 🙂 I think there needs to be a national “Teach Your Jewish Friends to Shoot An AR-15” Day and help them get in touch with their redneck side.
😉
Racism in any form really ticks me off. I too have noticed a rise in skinhead BS.
I read with great enjoyment while Sam not Sam wrapped Eeder up in knots and popped a big ole bow on his head.
Don’t worry Ninaorket, the Greys will save us. Now put your tin foil hat back on and go make your bed.
Nina,
Is your real name “Mohammed” by chance?
“There’s a reason education SUCKS, and it’s the same reason that it will never, ever, ever be fixed. It’s never going to get any better, don’t look for it, be happy with what you’ve got. Because the owners of this country don’t want that. I’m talking about the REAL owners, now. The REAL owners, the BIG WEALTHY business interests that control things and make all the important decisions — forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. YOU DON’T. You have no choice. You have OWNERS. They OWN YOU. They own EVERYTHING. They own all the important land, they own and control the corporations; they’ve long since bought and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the State houses, the City Halls; they’ve got the judges in their back pockets, and they own all the big media companies so they control just about all the news and information you get to hear. They gotcha by the BALLS. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying — lobbying to get what they want. Well, we know what they want — they want MORE for themselves and less for everybody else. But I’ll tell you what they don’t want. They DON’T want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well-informed, well-educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that, that doesn’t help them. That’s against their interests. That’s right. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around the kitchen table and figure out how badly they’re getting FUCKED by system that threw them overboard 30 fuckin’ years ago. They don’t want that. You know what they want? They want OBEDIENT WORKERS. OBEDIENT WORKERS. People who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork, and just dumb enough to passably accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime, and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it. And now they’re comin’ for your SOCIAL SECURITY MONEY. They want your fuckin’ retirement money. They want it BACK. So they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. And you know something? They’ll get it. They’ll get it ALL from you sooner or later — ‘cuz they OWN this fuckin’ place. It’s a big CLUB. And YOU AIN’T IN IT. You and I are NOT IN the big club. By the way, it’s the same big club they use to beat you over the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long, beating you over the in their media telling you what to believe — what to think — and what to buy. The table is tilted, folks. The game is rigged. And nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. Good honest hard-workin people — white collar, blue collar — doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on. Good honest hard-workin people CONTINUE — these are people of modest means — continue to elect these RICH COCKSUCKERS who don’t GIVE a fuck about them. They don’t give a fuck about you, they don’t GIVE A FUCK ABOUT YOU. T HEY DON’T CARE ABOUT YOU — AT ALL. AT ALL. AT ALL. You know? And nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care … that’s what the owners count on, the fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red, white and blue dick that’s being jammed up their assholes every day. Because the owners of this country know the truth — it’s called the American Dream … ‘cuz you have to be asleep to believe it.”
George Carlin’s Final Words To The World…
George Carlin on “The American Dream”.
all i can say to this whole mess is keep your powder dry – and close… the “end game” ain’t gonna be pretty
Hey Prepping Preacher…
Are you REALLY a preacher…and if so, do you tell your congregation to prepare?? Wish my Pastor was doing that, we KNOW to not say anything, because we WILL be laughed at!
Was given the chance by friends to move to a 400 ac farm july of 2010 ( rent free for as long as we want) All we do is keep an eye on the place and a few of his dairy cattle, bushhog, keep an eye out for his 89 year old mother and whatever else we have time for. It has given us the perfect place to be right now! and we are 30 min
from anywhere. lol
Red Leader,
In theory, since we live on a giant, spinning, iron core magnet, bombarded by solar radiation daily, there may be a way to tap into that source to run what would appear to be a “fueless” generator.
Essentially, you could say a PV cell is “fueless” in the same respect, although clearly when a cloud passes over the sun, the “fuel” is cut off.
So I don’t discount the theory in total, but as you point out, nobody has developed a machine for sale yet….and I ain’t holding my breath waiting.
Ninaorket reminds me of these fools on the internet that claim you can “build your own solar panels for $200 from parts easily obtained at any local hardware store and free yourself from the grid”, when you and I both know to produce any serious amount of electrical power from PV is a multi-thousand buck deal ( many multi-thousand bucks in fact )and not something you do with a bunch of salvage PV cells you buy off Fleabay.
SO, Ninaorket, when you actually GET a generator built, by all means, start a company. I’ll be your very first customer, but do look for me to show up at the factory with a VOM and a few test loads in hand ready to test things before I plunk any money down.
No collapse is required on the basis that the grass roots can now monetize personal gold & silver, circulate that debt free liquidity and purge fiat based debt back to the nothingness it came from. Gresham’s law is predicated on FIXED gold values and is reversing.
Until possession or use as currency of gold, silver or other medium of exchange not specifically approved by the authorities constitutes a crime equal in penalty to the possession or distribution of cocaine. Money credits will be exchanged for gold, silver and diamonds for a value to be determined. Anyone with knowledge of violations of the above must report the offense to the authorities or they will be charged with conspiracy to violate the Illegal Currency Act. In individual cases a determination may be made to waver any or all of the above on a case by case basis.
Well, that sux!
on the Daily Crux…
Six steps to take today to protect yourself from out-of-control gov’t
Greetings Everyone!
All these posts look interesting….including the “anti-semite” ones.”Goldie Saks” is run primarily by “Jewish Interests” of one form or another.You see how THEY think with their 1% banners at the office.If you are raised to believe that being born into a certain race allows you “carte blanc” to act in a lawless way,then bad things are bound to happen.Especially since if you bring large sums to the local Temple on a day of Atonement ALL your sins are “forgiven” for the past year.Better than Xmas I would say.It explains the lack of remorse by Bernie Madoff and his unjailed ilk at Goldie Saks,etc.
As for the oil question,there’s plenty still in the Gulf.
But it’s so far down and at EXTREME pressure and temperature that even BP isn’t quite sure how to pump it to the surface(doesn’t deter them from drilling anyway,thanks to the safety concerned Obama folks)
On a happy note,Iceland(which we hear so little about)dumped the bankers and their fraudulent schemes into the Ocean and are doing just fine,thank you.The rest of Europe hated them for it,and that was a bad thing?
Perhaps the US will be forced,unwillingly or not to the same conclusion.Andrew Jackson pulled the plug on the Fed when they tried to control him,and the Uber-Rich who ran it were ruined and ended as a small footnote in history.The country as a whole did just fine.Food for thought perhaps?
Best to All,Hope this is not too long…
Hope you can keep warm this winter.
GFG
I would ask the doctor if he has taken his own advice and bought a farm in the boonies protected by barbed wire, electric fences, land mines and Dobermans; I doubt it. A single family cannot in the end cannot protect itself from roving bands of criminals intent on taking what you have. You can take out a few of them, but then be overwhelmed.
Brazil provides the answer, they make biofuels and have multi fuel cars. Now, the alcohol is more expensive and less mpg, but it is a way to keep the happy auto driving economy going. So there are obvious alternatives to petroleum that do not take decades to introduce. It will require land for planting biofuel crops that takes away food production. This is the ultimate question. The infinite growth of population in a finite planet, there will be a breaking point where economies cannot grow outside their carrying capacity at a certain standard of living. It is obvious that the USA is suffering a standard of living drop, they are preparing us for the worst. The elite plan is to look to biofuels, switch over and stop exporting food, thus starving our enemies and competition down to manageable levels. They are buying up the resources and land across the world to make this happen within the next decade or so. Good luck to all.
At some point the solution of one world currency will be proposed. Look for it.
Thank you Mr. Faber……..Mr. RICH99 isn’t such a crazy person afterall……isn’t this exactly what I have been saying for months now but rich doesn’t know what he’s talking about .
Faber is correct. They can and will drag this out for another several years to a couple of more decades.