While many of the establishment institutions are busy jumping on the gun control bandwagon to meet the 2nd Amendment with a concerted (and deeply misplaced) shame campaign, and Obama readies even more executive orders to infringe as much as possible, real Americans are expanding their self-defense measures and training up.
After a string of violent crimes aimed at businesses in the Atlanta area, one business owner is fighting back by preparing his staff to defend themselves and discourage attempted robberies and assaults.
Lance Toland owns an aviation insurance company, and is requiring all of his employees – including the women – to complete certification for a concealed carry permit and to bear arms at the workplace.
He says it is one of the most effective self-defense weapons and all his aviation insurance agencies carry them openly in the office.
Everybody has one of these in their drawer or on their person. I would not want to come into one of my facilities,” Toland said. “It’s a 5 shot .410, just like a shotgun and you call it hand cannon.”
Toland said after hearing about recent home invasions and violent crime in the metro Atlanta area, he came up with the new office mandate.
“They all had their conceal carry permit within 3 to 4 weeks of me announcing that this was something you had to do,” he said. “With the presentation of their license, they all got a 4/10 judge pistol.”
Toland claims that 100% of his employees embraced the company’s new requirement. Many had already embraced CCW, and the others expressed no problem with going through training:
Will other business owners follow suit and not just honor the rights of their employees to carry, but mandate it and recognize the positive role that guns have played in stopping crimes all across the country?
Whatever else you want to say about the politics of gun control, Americans across the country have demonstrated in every way that they are in support of their inalienable right to keep and bear arms, and not with an unconstitutional president pursuing an anti-American agenda.
The American people are NOT going to lay down while their rights are trampled upon; to the contrary, they are prepared to defend themselves in every conceivable scenario.
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i wanna work for that guy
Rock and roll!
Cool, I wish I had a boss like that.
Every business in America should do this, the crime rate would drop drastically!
Why should a CCW be required. His employees could carry concealed without one while on his property. Trekker Out.
I’m assuming he wants them to get training of some sort, rather than just giving or allowing them to carry a gun without knowledge and some proficiency of its use
JMO
EOTS I agree with your response as far as the training is a good idea, and when I lived in a State that required a CCW to carry concealed, I took the necessary course to obtain one, but I relly don’t like the idea of being forced to do something that is a right. Trekker Out.
I agree it should be by choice , not forced
Although it sounds like no one was forced
It sounds like all were on board with the idea
Agreed. Rights are something you can chose to take advantage of. I take issue when (either side) is forced upon me without my permission or as a requirement of employment.
EOTS, did you not read the article or watch the video? Yes, they got training.
I was responding to mountain Trekkers comment
Yes , I did watch
My comment wasn’t about what I watched it was in response to another persons question
Ok?
Sorry, EOTS, I misunderstood your comment.
MT, what about when they are not in the office? Being an aviation insurance company, the people more than likely have to leave to visit clients. It’s not about just keeping them safe in the office but when they leave too.
To answer my own statement. He was wise from a liability stand point in having them get a CCW where they most likely got some training. Should they have to use their weapon in a defensive situation and have to go to court, atleast they will have that on their side. I just have an issue with being required to do something. Trekker Out. Just My Rebellious Nature!
As far as I’m concerned the only thing a Taurus Judge beats is a rock, bat or a knife. If your gonna carry a ‘horse pistol’, a .357(mag) or 44 spl. is better. In close quarters with one of the employees loaded with .410 #3 buck shells, you’re asking for wounded bystanders. If you gotta use the Judge, load it up with the .45LC lead. Sometimes people with best intentions are stooges.
Yes they could conceal carry on his property. However to get the guns from home to work and back they need a ccw. Quite awhile back and without a lot of fanfare they changed they law in Georgia where this company is. You need a ccw permit to conceal carry as well as open carry. The law has never really been enforced, they do not go up to people and ask if they have a permit, but if you are armed and have a run-in then they start checking. Quite a few people have run into trouble because they assume open carry is legal in Georgia.
The ccw offers credibility and authorization to carry off property furthering their protective area of coverage.
First of all, a Judge is a revolver, not a pistol. By getting a CCW, hopefully, there will be some training involved on how to shoot for those employees who don’t know anything. A Judge is pretty hard to conceal, especially for a smaller person. Open carry on private property is allowed, isn’t it?
A revolver is a revolving pistol
h ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qs6UWMLGvx0
Remember Josey Wales…….pew pew pew….
Be safe……Stay the course….BA.
This revolver also shoots .45 Colt bullets
Colt .45? You mean a round that was designed for… a revolver..?
Peachtree Dekalb area he speaks of has turned in the last 20 years.
My lineage has a air service there and in Athens.
Still have not gotten me a judge yet…
Don’t eppe you’ll only regret it. A close quarter shotgun in the house will beat a Judge hands down anytime. If you want to get the missus a shotgun, get her an 870 20 gauge with a smoothbore deer barrel and feed it no.3 Buck. I’ve got a twenty and twelve gauge with both having side saddle shell holders mixed with Foster type deer slugs/ buckshot and extended magazine tubes. The receiver tops have been drilled and tapped for rails with T-1 Aimpoint red dots. Close quarter happenings, I’ll shoot through drywall and doors if need be.
seconded. I feed my 500’s one #7 birdshot and the remaining shells 00 buck. The idea being if I ever need to use it I can argue an escalation of force during the inevitable civil suit.
“We Are Heading Into Anarchy”: Official Says EU Will “Completely Break Down In 10 Days”
“Don’t look now, but Europe’s migration commissioner has just slapped an expiration data on the EU: it’s 10 days from now.
If no concrete progress is made by the time EU officials convene a summit with Turkey early next month, Brussels says “the whole system will completely break down.”
Norwegian PM Erna Solberg “is effectively prepared to turn everyone away and go into lockdown mode should everything fall apart completely, causing Europe to descend into some kind of lawless, Hobbesian, free-for-all.”
“Officials fear the onset of spring will embolden still more migrants to make the journey as warmer weather will thaw the Balkan route.”
Zerohedge
Direct link…
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-02-25/we-are-heading-anarchy-official-says-eu-will-completely-break-down-10-days
what Im wondering is, did he buy the guns for them? and if so.. how did he qualify to buy that many to “hand out” when that could be considered a straw purchase ?
Disclaimer : I do not agree with straw purchase laws
Eots
He said he bought them but likely did so in their own names. Of course it wasn’t a straw purchase 😉
HE can’t ” do it in their names”
They have to do it in their names
So then he reimbursed them the purchase price of the guns on their next paycheck…. Therefore he “purchased” the guns for his employees. “Think McFly think!”
Or, the company bought them, paid for them, and issues them to the employee, or gifts them. Lots of different ways to legally do it. The simplest is to just have the employee go buy the gun, using a company allowance for it. Could have even set up an account with the local gun shop, employee gives them a company requisition, gets the gun, the account gets charged the cost.
I think it’s the same thing as an armed security guard who gets his or her weapon from their employer. I believe a straw purchase only applies to someone who is unable to legally purchase a firearm for themselves. By having the CCW, they have proof of being able to legally own a firearm. In many states, a CCW negates the need for the mandatory waiting period for a hand gun as it is seen as proof of having passed a background check and ability to own a weapon responsibly.
WRONG.
There’s no federal law that prohibits a gift of a firearm to a relative or friend that lives in your home state. Abramski v. United States, a recent Supreme Court decision involving a “straw purchase” of a firearm did not change the law regarding firearms as gifts.
READ the instructions on form 4473 pertaining to question 11a, and explicitly states that purchasing a gun as gift for another person allows you to mark “YES”.
https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download
A law repugnant to the Constitution is null and void. Judge will gut you.
A weapon must have a use to the Militia. That’s why our boys carry a kBar, brass knuckles on a D handled knife, or something similar. Some favor the M60, .308 sniper rifle, 3.5 rocket, Browning’s 1919 water cooled, 1911, BAR, mortar, or short barreled cannon like the japs used, hand held, called it a knee mortar, claymore’s and grenades.
To each his own. Gestapo will gut you in any case if you ain’t careful.
Weapons must have a use to the Militia, and we’re all Militia. It doesn’t matter what you police gestapo grammar guerilla piss ants call Taurus types – be it gat, heater, pistol, handgun, revolver, derringer, or sawed off .22 rifle, .45 Colt, or a sawed off .410. Everything’s illegal, don’t you know. What’s a Constitution?
Carry four of ’em on the outside, whatever, and a couple in your boots.
Concealed carry permits are unconstitutional.
But who among you preppers and commies believe in the Constitution, infringement and all?
Sawed off double barrel 10 gauge Greener is about right.
It’s a pistol if you want to call it that. Nathan Bedford’s boys carried ’em on their horses. Killed a lot of yankees. Short barreled shotguns, have ’em at the ready.
f ’em
Militia? what a joke. A constitutional Militia’s commander is the sitting president of the US (Article II, section 2, clause 1) In no way will I ever be answerable to these jokers.
The unorganized Militia are the people. The people are not to be deprived of their arms, as in “…shall not be infringed.”
I will defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
It is the unorganized Militia from which our Military is formed in time of a Constitutionally declared war. See Article I, Section 8, Constitution of the United States.
These are some of the enumerated powers of Congress regarding the Milita, viz:
To Declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions.
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
The Second Amendment is not for protecting one’s right for duck hunting and self defense. Those rights are protected in the Ninth Amendment.
The organized Militia is the National Guard. See the Dick act.
A weapon must have a use to the Militia. That is, the people, person, or individual in the unorganized Militia and the unorganized Militia includes most people except a few judges and a few others.
See Miller vs U.S., 1939
In Miller, 1939, the SCOTUS said that a shotgun has no use to the Militia in spite of the fact that the Model 97 Winchester 12 gauge shotgun was used by our Army and Marines in WW1 and by our Military in all of our wars to this date.
Miller said that a weapon must have a use to the Militia.
The Militia is not a joke. The unorganized Militia owns 300,000,000 firearms and trillions of rounds of ammunition, not to mention other weapons of use to the Militia. None of these weapons are in the control of the president or any other government lackey.
The sitting president of the US is not the commander of me and I am the unorganized Militia and I include as my countrymen many other veterans and many millions of others who are Americans.
There is a weapon behind every blade of grass.
Semper Fi
Enemy of the State
Perhaps expressing it that way was just simpler and maybe what really happened was that he paid for the purchases. With each employee qualified, with a CCW permit, each would meet no resistance with a purchase that would be theirs.
It’s possible
Wouldn’t it be nice if they would just tell it like it is
Rather than Like it isn’t ?
Lies and misdirections are a huge problem in our media and governance
It shouldn’t be brushed over and allowed
I, for one, am more willing to do business with those who allow guns versus those that advertise gun-free zones. I either avoid anti-gun businesses, or ignore their policy if I absolutely have to do business with them.
If he was a really good boss he would have got them the S&W Governor!
I agree, the Governor is a better 4/10-45LC revolver.
You can gift as many guns as you want. Definitely not a straw purchase. 410 is a perfect anti car jacking device. Little heavy for concealed. Everyone that owns one needs to pattern it with as many different brands you can find. Some you won’t hit a plate at 3′.. Federal 3″ will put 5 .38 cal. bullets in a perfect vertical 6″ spread at 12′ out of a snakeslayer. Awesome power!
Finally someone with some Smarts!!!!
I will bet nobody tries anything there. can you see some turd trying rob the place, and 4 open up on a turd. By-By turd!
Sgt.
Reminds me of a movie,don’t remember the name,of two morons robbing a bar. We’ll guess what, It was a hangout for cops off duty. The morons pulled their guns and, maybe 30 cops turned around with their guns drawn. The looks on the morons was priceless. Peace
I’m one of these very pro-gun people who says this guy is a complete knucklehead. I’m looking at the choice of weapon and the potential threat matrix his employees face at work. I have no issues with employers who allow CCW on premises, but I just do not see a real pressing need for this guy to go the route he’s going, given the nature of his business. It would be a different story if he had a cash-heavy business, which aviation insurance is not. I see a lot of over-reaction on the part of Lance Toland.
The absolute last gun I would buy is a revolver. To me, they’re useless. You’re limited to five rounds, maybe six. If you don’t finish your target with those rounds, he’s going to finish you because you’ll never get the chance to reload; revolvers simply take too long. Then there’s handling and accuracy. You’re going to have muzzle climb with one of these things; you need to adjust your aim lower than where you intend to shoot to compensate. Give me a 9 mm any day. I have 17 rounds. I can exchange magazines without missing a beat. I can aim center mass, shoot center mass, hit center mass without having to significantly compensate for muzzle climb.
Firearms training for employees is fine but if these people do not have any kind of training in live hand to hand fighting, guess what is going to happen when they actually have to draw their weapon and fight someone who is armed? They are going to respond the way someone who has never had a punch thrown in the direction of their head will respond when a punch comes at their head: they will freeze from fear or they will panic. No amount of time on the shooting range, against pieces of paper that don’t fight back, is going to build the mental make-up and physical ability necessary for these people to fight effectively. They’ll walk off the shooting range with a grossly inflated sense of security.
There’s all kinds of What If’s out there, but the bottom line is another half dozen people in his city are now licensed to carry. That’s a good thing.
I would have gotten them .38 Special revolvers, myself, but the gun you have is a lot better than the one you don’t have.
Remember, the 2nd Amendment is about individual rights, and choices. What we think he should buy, or carry, doesn’t matter one bit. In some states, you don’t get the license, because someone says you don’t need it. Or they insist that Grandma be trained like Rambo before she puts a pistol in her purse to go to the Bingo game on Sunday night. One state has a 50-round qualification shoot, including ranges up to 15 yards, hardly a realistic self-defense scenario. The reason, someone decided they knew all about it and dictated ‘need’.
Some people follow the training, others curl up into a fetal position.
They’re legally qualified for a permit, that’s the only criteria anyone should have to meet. Anything else is just bureaucracy.
Smokey
I agree.
Grandma not Rambo
I have had a CCW issued from washington, state, i moved to missouri in 1999 ,they had no CCW so i carried untill missouri , thern in about 2003 they woke up..meanwhile my CCW expired, in 03.. they want $100 pluss a class to attend. ,,,now”THE SECOND READS THE RIGHT TO BARE ARMS”
WHY DO WE NEED A LICENSE?????????????
SGT U.S.M.C. 1966-72
Peter
I didn’t take this quite so literally. He was making a “statement”.
Rebecca I think what Peter is trying to say, is if your not an MMA fighter you shouldn’t even try and defend yourself. To which I say bullshit! Also Peter says a revolver is useless because it only has 5 or 6 rounds if you miss with a .410 across a 15 foot room, another 10 or 12 rounds probably ain’t gonna do you much good. And as you said, the owner is making a “STATEMENT” Trekker Out.
Mountain Trekker
True, he was saying that. I defended myself with a rock once and it worked against superior force. Foolish to tell someone not to defend yourself. If you have a choice, choose your battles carefully against superior force. If not, may as well fight for your life. Anyone can get between a rock and a hard spot, each of us chooses in that minute. I defended myself, maybe he would not. No one can say for another.
Mountain Trekker
To be more exact
I took the owner to be making a statement
I took Peter to be saying he would not defend himself
each will decide
ah another internet commando. Thanks for your input.
This gun also shoots a .45 Colt bullet!
Only flaw in his plan is if somebody gets shot he will be the one the jury finds liable for damages…
Maybe, Stan, but the way things are going, that could happen even if he’d only “allowed” them to carry on the clock and on his property.
This is a definite ray of hope!
God Bless
NP
The gaping hole of a 45 caliber speaks volumes to the ocular nerve of any would be offenders.
Pulling the trigger should rarely be required.
no one will ever defend americans, never have, if the american people ever allow their so called leaders to disarm them they will be victims of the govt and victims of criminals, illegals, islamic extremist, refugees like in europe, americans are going to have to defend themselves, law enforcement isnt going to do it, they will only investigate your death, your govt doesnt give a shit, they have wrecked the country.
Charlie2dogs
I was in my 20s when I realized that police only investigate after the fact and odds are the perp will never go to jail. Perps are usually caught by accident. Once they do get hold of you, if you are poor you go to jail and if you are rich you cut a deal. Once is a great while they prosecute someone important enough to keep people believing in the system. They are currently short on convictions. Foolish of them. It is a self monitoring system that requires naive belief.
Tide may be turning, there have been criminal arrests of a couple minor CEOs. Bill Cosby got arrested. No one important, but high profile enough to give an illusion back to the peons… they hope.
Cool story. Great to hear that some business owners take protecting their business and employees safety seriously. I think the Judge handgun was somewhat for media effect. If someone didn’t own a handgun, a Taurus Judge beets being helpless with nothing.
Excellent idea, especially the firearms training prior to being provided with a means of self-defense at the workplace. By contrast, my former employer (I’m now retired) prohibited all firearms on their property. That’s a cozy scenario for someone working in the corporate offices with security guards all over the place, but not much comfort for someone working alone on night shift at a remote plant out in the middle of nowhere, or in a plant close to an inner city sh*t hole neighborhood.
Screw that, I always put my CCW to good use.