Marc Faber joins Alex Jones. As usual, Dr. Doom’s predictions are not for those who are disturbed by unpleasant news.
It’s going to end in a complete disaster. But, we have to distinguish – the disaster may not happen for five to ten years. But we’re heading into an iceberg. And, what will eventually happen is that the population will suffer very badly from inflation and declining real wages.
The establishment, including the government, will protect itself. And when everything becomes very bad and you have simultaneous, essentially, a recession/depression…
Unemployment goes higher goes higher than 10%, say maybe 15%. When that doesn’t improve, they’ll go to war. And nobody can pay for the war so you print more and more money, and you have hyperinflation, and then the system goes.
That’s why I’m telling everybody, you ought to own some land, and you ought to own some stocks and you ought to own some gold or a lot of gold and other precious metals. Because paper money and bonds are very vulnerable over the next five to ten years.
Dr. Faber has been forecasting economic, market and geo-political trends for three decades, and he has a great track record. Had you taken his advice before the S&L collapse in 1987 or the real estate collapse of 2008 you would have not only preserved your wealth, but increased it.
He has a broad view of the functioning of global capital flows and politics and how they affect the individual on the ground. Heed his warnings, he knows what he’s talking about.
Listen to the complete Alex Jones interview with Dr. Marc Faber:
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The vast majority of Americans live paycheck to paycheck…Where’s the money to buy gold and land???
Learn to live off the land, the millions of acres of public land all around us, or find someone to teach you how-Hunting, Fishing, Foraging, etc.
Albeit…If this senario happens alot of people are simply going to die. Seems that alot of preppers have the funds neccesary to be prepared and most of the articles on SHTF are directed to those individuals. I’m in the middle; much better off than most and behind compared to others. What this website needs to address (ah-hem, Mac!) is what can the average schmuck, Joe Six-pack do to weather out the coming storm. Looking forward to answers and ideas.
Anon — If all goes well in the coming weeks with our new site design update we’ll have a better platform for sharing this type of information. It’s in the works!
The goal going forward will be to provide practical advice and information. It’s one thing to have the money to buy freeze dried food, it’s a whole different ball game when you consider long-term preparedness and lifestyle changes.
Thanks!
Mac, if you have something in the works, it would be super!Â
I really liked the “good, better, best” taxonomy presented in the link below about a week ago, but needs to go deeper. The last step of self-sustaining living … that’s a *hard* one… just thinking about PV panels gives me a headache … not to mention all the other details 🙁
http://www.survivalblog.com/2010/02/incremental_preparedness_the_g.html
I echo Anonymous above.. I’m in good shape but by no means ready for a major collapse. Â Not sure where exactly to turn for land, but am planning to accumulate gold/silver coins periodically over the coming years.
Yeah Mac;
I’m one of those guys trying to figure out how to do this on the “cheap” too. Â What about some good how to on using a food dehydrator? (everyone has one of those ronco ones!) Â Also, what if you vacuum packed dehydrated food? Â How long would your storage be good for then? Â I’m having a tough time making the mortgage, and I can do a little above and beyond, but the freeze dried food is really expensive. Â there needs to be more options so that people like me (and Anonymous) can continue to move forward, even if imperfectly.
You can buy some land, but perhaps not where you’re at now. In some rural mid-west/west locations, land not suitable for farming or pasture (wooded/brush, creek or stream through it) is very cheap, less than $1k an acre. The kind of land perfect for a retreat.
I have a place to go w/100 acres so am not worried about that. Buying gold is an expensive proposition, so silver coins it is.
I live in a suburb. I live paycheck to paycheck. I have no savings. I have slowly over the past few months been stocking up on some longterm food storage. I will be buying a gun and ammo this week. I cant afford to buy land or move from where I am at now. Will I be ok in the suburbs? I dont think I have a choice?
I love Faber. Great insights, opinions and analysis. Alex Jones: annoying, loud and obnoxious
Hey, Mac…
I’m the anon poster, don’t know how my name got omitted! Happy to hear of the new site design coming. I posed the questions somewhat retorically but hope this thread gets lengthy with info and ideas.
Eric
Mac,
Your work is appreciated, I also appreciate the many contributors to these topics eager to learn and share their knowledge with others. This is the way it should be and the way I hope it continues! Sounds like the new site you are working on will assist all of us. Like the old saying goes, “All of us are smarter than one of us!”
Keep up the good work!!
We have stored dry goods by simply vacuum packing them in canning jars. We pull a (almost) full vacuum on the jars — 29″-30″ of vacuum. Flour, Rice, Dried Beans, Pasta, Almonds, nuts, crackers, Tang, Sugar, etc are all stored this way. You can expect as 5X increase in food life storage using this method. Just insure that the foods stored are below 10% in moisture content. We labeled (food type / dietary values / date / etc., and rotate/replace all the food as we eat it. We keep it below 70 degrees – usually 60 degrees and in the dark. Your basement is a great place to store it. We have over a years supply now and we replace as we use it. We do have a few months supply of freeze dried as well, but we don’t touch it unless an emergency dictates.
We are on well water and have a second 12 volt pump system that can be manually operated or run by 12V. I have built a system to run this 12v pump off of a battery that is charge by a solar panel.
We also have a gravity fed water filter… and defensive weapons… and we are learning how to use them. This spring we are putting in a garden and learning how to can..not just veggies, but heavy foods such as meats.
We have gone to our doctor and asked for a years supply of all meds that we take regularly. We have also bought bulk vitamins.
We still have much to learn, but we are getting there. We want to be as independent as possible.
Pay off all debt, learn to live a simple life, well within your budget. Save 10% of your salary and buy silver coins each month. Cut back while it is your choice and not forced on you.
We are doing more, but this gives you an idea of what you can do now.
Tony
I agree with Eric , I too live pay check to pay check . I got way too much month left at the end of the money !! In fact I had to pay The feds and obama and the state of Arizona an additional $1400. in taxes . The only way to get it done was to sell a couple of my GUNS !   It broke my heart to have to do that but thats the way it is . I literally will have to set aside some of my money each and every pay day just fore TAXES for this year . And what do we see on the horizon ? Price increases on everything ! So we the sheeple will get squeezed more and more and end up with less and less . Thanks obama and all of you state governors who just want to tax and spend every thing we have . I would love to own some land and gold or silver even , but that aint gonna happen.
Comments…..Anon, the answer is very simple:STOP BUYING SIX -PACK Â AND SAVE MONEY LIKE OTHER PEOPLE. STOP
WATCHING DISNEY CHANELS /CNN,CNBC ETC/.
The coming “changes” will require that we all adapt or die. Adaptation in advance is better than hard choices on the fly. It will require discipline and sacrifice to survive then. Make those choices now that you can. Let go of all of those “things” that you think you can’t live without. You can.
Adapt or die. Choose to survive. All the information that you will ever need is at your public library or on the Internet. All the answers to all the questions you will ever have …… are within you.
Comments…..My advice to you people that can’t put things together alone may be you should think of doing things in groups. My self I prepared a home base away from North America in a country that has experienced war for the past forty years. Civil war, external bombardment, occupation and more. The people  adapted to living in that environment and learned to survive as if it’s a normal way of life. It has taken me 15 years to prep knowing that one day I will leave North America. But I will give ideas how we live without power and water. First the home is designed with four different systems solar power with inverter to run the whole house, 12 volt system that runs lights only in case of failure, back up generator , and the grid which rarely operates.Water, dug a well with a pump that fills a sistern on the roof which feeds a solar hot water system that requires no pumps (thermosyphon) then it all gravity feeds to the whole house. Food, there is three different pantries,one big one for major stock,and a couple of small ones for daily consumption, with a minimum storage for 1 year supply.Heating is run on oil, small simple units that require no power, just venting to the out side, and enough storage to run at least two winters.Cooking is done on propane stoves with storage of up to one year, in the winter we use the top of the oil heater.Every one is armed and everybody respects the property of others. Now this kind of preparation take time and money,and it seems most people are running out of both.Stop dragging your feet and start planing be it by yourself or with others.The next project is to build a small hobby farm with anaroebic digestion to produce methane which could power generator,heating, and cooking fuel.Good luck.
“The rich rule over the poor and the borrower is slave to the lender.” Proverbs 22:7
The most effective way to start this process is to be debt-free. It’s hard to ready yourself and your family when all your money has someone elses name on it. Right now while the dollar still works do everything in your power to increase your capital. You’ll need the money to buy the supplies neccesary. It’s a shame that so many can’t prepare because so much of their earnings go right back out the door to the evil bastards that started this mess. GET DEBT-FREE!
p.s. the average american is as much in fault as the banksters and the government for being so addicted to out-of-control spending.
Comments…..Eric , your absolutely right. Debt free is the way to go. But spending wisely is the key. When I started this project I started selling all the silly vein things that we all get caught up in. Boat, toy cars, skidoo, etc. and lived modestly in order to support my family pay my taxes and still have a little money left to put aside for this. Not to mention worked hard and long hours. Didn’t  waste time watching sports , drinking beer in a bar,changed to a wholesome diet so I can work and think straight,got rid of the nintendo games so the kids can study and think straight as well, prayed a lot for the almighty to guide me in the right path.”Distraction and wants are the worst kinds of evil”Plato He also said “precious things should be costly and the most precious of all things is water itself”. Man has the free will to create his own destiny, live well and prosper.
1. Go through your monthly budget item by item.
2. Cut everything you can. Â Cable TV, eating out, gym membership, internet (if you can stand it, go to the library), online buying, pest control service, Â yard service, fancy food and clothes, turn down the hot water heater and furnace, cut alcohol and start walking.
3. Pay off your debt.
4. Sell your house and rent. Â You stand to lose more value in your home over the next few years than you get in tax credits, and more importantly, home equity is NOT LIQUID.
5. Buy land where you can grow food, if possible. Â A farmhouse and a couple of acres is pretty cheap in many states.
6. Buy your food at Walmart. Â The food is from America and it is cheaper.
7. You can’t eat gold, and it is no good for barter unless you are buying something big. Â You can’t cut up a one once ingot and still have a trustworthy unit of exchange. Â Buy silver and keep cash.
8. Trust God. Â The banks, the government and your neighbors will help you only so far.
9. Turn off the power to your house for the weekend and then decide what to stock up on. Â You’ll notice you really don’t have enough candles, and you’ll notice things (heating, laundry, cooking are more difficult without power) Â What do you really need?
10. Enjoy the little things now. Â Your kids, your wife, your friends, Cadbury cream eggs.
“Â Sell your house and rent. Â You stand to lose more value in your home over the next few years than you get in tax credits, and more importantly, home equity is NOT LIQUID”.
If you have a mortgage you can afford you’re better off to stay in your home. After the next massive round of foreclosures the rental market will be flooded with applicants, thus the landlords will reap the benefits of greatly increasing  monthly rental prices. Depending on your demographic area, renters could be paying more than those holding a mortgage.
Sorry, I didn’t “sign” my original post. Resubmitting just so you know I am a regular, not some LDS salesman spamming the place.
The cheapest long term bulk food available I have found is from the Church of Latter Day Saints (Mormons) Yes, they sell to “outsiders”, I have done it. Check out there price list and locations at
http://www.providentliving.org/0,10803,1653-1,00.html
The facilities that distribute the food are called “Home Storage Centers”. You can go pick up prepacked stuff (variety is limited though) or set up an appointment to package the other stuff available, yourself.
Seems as though from these post that everyone is accepting of the fate being bestowed upon us. Very sad. You can sit back and let the robbers decide your fate or try and take matters into your own hands. Get involved and organize. Tea Party Movement……
Jeff,
I am guessing many of us here already are “involved”. I myself have quite a bit of “hope” for the future, but whats been done is done and there are coming events that are unstoppable at this point. The best we can do is prevent “Armageddon” to give our children and grandchildren a chance to muck things up for themselves…
Tony,
Sounds like you’re very squared away and working consistently towards your plan. Having a manual pump option with your well is excellent.
Â
Aaron and Eric,
On owning vs. renting, it probably depends on your geoghraical location and other factors (example below), such as how much equity you have in your home. For some it will make sense to continue paying off the mortgage, others will be better off selling. Either way, the tight rental market is unlikely since investors buying up foreclosures will eventually rent them.
Â
I sold my home in northern VA last year for a loss of a couple thousand, and its value has continued to decline by at least $40k. Since I planned on moving and didn’t want to get trapped in an upside down mortgage, selling for me made good sense and turned out to be the best choice.
You guys are f-ing great. Â I’ve been working on a plan based around the most real threat that I can forsee in the near future (Cascadia sub-duction zone earthquake). Â So I’m working on the idea of having to stay put. Â Wrecked infrastructure means that you can’t move very far, unless on foot. Â Furthermore, I live out in the boondocks, near a river, in a sparsely populated area. Â I’ve had lots of the ideas you all have mentioned, but having a list from someone who’s farther along than you is a big help (thanks everybody). Â Hearing the input you all have lets me know that I’m on the right path, and also where I can improve.
Did you know that every American lives next to a freshwater source? From the Great lakes to the tiniest local creek. Are you like me, living in of these new-fangled cookie cutter subdivisions, your lot not big enough to graze your daughters hamsters…most likely on municipal water? You MUST obtain a filtration/purification device.
Last year, the year of my prepper awakening, I purchased a Katadyn Pocket Filtration system. Small, portable, easy to use and the silver impregnated ceramic filter is rated (and laboratory proven) at 13,000 gallons.Â
Get one! Yea, it’s $300 but would you rather spend a couple hundred dollars or die from shitting and puking your brains out from giardia and cryptosporidium from digesting untreated water. Google Katadyn.
p.s. I don’t work for Katadyn. There are several other manufacturers of water systems. I picked Katadyn because it’s field proven by U.S. Special Forces.
I wanted to further elaborate on how we vacuum pack food in canning jars. We use the “wide mouth jar sealer” from Foodsaver. They make a “regular mouth jar sealer” as well. Both can be had for about $15, or $10 each. Search on Amazon or Google them using the quotes above.
I modified both sealers slightly by pressing a metal tube in the center hole so I could easily add/remove tubing.
If you look at the picture on Amazon you’ll quickly understand what I am saying.
I then picked up a manual hand operated vacuum pump and some clear hose for $19. I “Teed” an auto vacuum gauge to it so we would know when we had sufficient vacuum.
There are instructions on the internet for easily transforming a bicycle pump into a manual vacuum pump in a matter of minutes(search on “DIY manual vacuum pump”) or you if you prefer you can buy a “Pump-N-Seal” vacuum pump that also works well.
I also purchased a 2.5CFM electric automotive AC vacuum pump from harbor freight for about $50. We use the electric pump most of the time, but have the manual pump in case the power is out.
To seal the jar, you simply place the lid (minus the ring) on the top of the jar and then press the adapter over the mouth of the jar. Connect the hose to the adapter, turn on the pump until the gauge reads 29-30″ of vacuum, then simply pull the hose off the adapter with pump running. Done!
Remove the adapter from the jar… the vacuum holds the lid on tight, and then screw on the jar top ring.
Both methods work well. The manual process gets us to 28.5″ vacuum. The pump to almost 30″ of vacuum.
The entire process takes only a minute to do per jar.
One final note: Do not fill the jar full of fine powder products – things like flour, pancake mix, etc. 60% full is a safe level, as the vacuum will suck up fine products and may cause the jar not to seal properly… This could also cause damage to the pump over the long term. I use a 6″ piece of clear hose as a safety measure.
Total cost of the setup was under $100. Hope this helps someone …
Tony
Correction: 6″ should be 6′ (feet instead of inches)
If things get really tough….go to Canada….As a Canadian, I see what is about to happen to the US and Canada to a degree….BTW Canada stands in a higher ranking in the US on the personal freedom index….
Come up north….although you will have to leave your hand guns at the border…..
Cheers
This is awesome…. imagine, a return to community in our (economically) segregated and subdivided land. I am fortunate to have been alerted and begun to prepare ten years ago. Johnny V is right on… avoid earthquake zones and those with no water. Note… any mountainous region can ‘wake up’ with earthquakes and volcanoes at any time, no matter how long there have not been any. I am a tech-head, trained shop teacher, and professional master electrician, and I want to encourage all of you who go solar or wind power to move up to 24 volt NOT 12… Google Peukert’s Law… you get twice as much power out of a 24 volt battery to drive the same given wattage load. If you have the option, go 48 volt for the same reason, especially for inverters. For pumps, etc, 24 volt is better since those appliances are more common. Try european ebay or marine (boating) supply places for a selection of 24 volt stuff. (2x 12 volt batteries in series makes 24v)
“Come up north….although you will have to leave your hand guns at the border…..”
No offense, Militant Mind but…WHERE THE HELL IS THE Â FREEDOM IN THAT!
Why 5 to 10 years, WW3 has already started it will now expand when the PIGS fall apart and Germany will send troops to keep “order” -ordenung- as they call it. Deja Vu. 2011 USA will go into civil strife as the stimulus outgases pffft!! So civil war in EU and Franco-German intervention, UK/US internal civil strife, Russia rolls into Ukraine. I say 2012 we will all agree WW3 is here. Mr. Faber, the only solution is private communes with high walls and moats, preferably in Montana or somewhere where nobody can get you. The whole world will turn into Afghanistan type tribes, and USA like the movie Warriors.
And oh there are somethings better than gold and land- both are difficult to hide or carry around. 10 brownie points if you guess what I did rather have. Check my next post. As most economists Dr. Faber again got this wrong- lol.
The best thing to own is small liquor bottles (the kind they give you in airplanes). Better than gold or land as they are easy to carry, hide, and barter with. AS usual the economist says own gold and land-what for; please most humans would prefer something that would keep them drunk.
You might want to check on Faber’s comments from two years ago, then 1 year ago, etc…
He (and many others) are now CYA’ing themselves by ‘pushing it out’ ‘5 or more years’…
I don’t doubt that Faber – or any of the rest trying to sell a newsletter aren’t right – they likely are, but I wish they’d put some meat (i.e., timeline) behind their arguments, instead of coming up with clever ways of being ‘right’ no matter if their timing was right or wrong. Â Good Lord…
Why is it everybody always says you can’t eat gold or silver? Well last time I checked you can’t eat bullets or land or paper stocks. Gold and silver have always, ALWAYS, since the inception of time been used to buy what you want or need. You may think I don’t need gold or silver well let me tell you this someone, will trade you for it when they have an item that is perishable. History has always shown that, regardless of what you think.
Will things be as bad as Faber says? Who knows but voting in Repub/Dems is not the answer. We need/will have a true revolution and it will be violent and bloody like all revolutions are. It’ll be cathartic, it’ll be great. Let’s get on with it I’m ready.
Some great comments. My family has more than 1200 acres in ND, but I live in the South. I have invested with local farmers, when they buy 20 sheep, I buy 5-10 and split any lambs/profits and losses with them. I also have done this with milking cows, hogs and steers. I basically own my own farm as a small percentage of several local farmers, get free milk and meat (not really free, I paid for it up front). I have been purchasing silver, guns and ammo, one large purchase every month based on which one is cheapest. have 4 rifles, 2 handguns, 2 shotguns and 2 air rifles. Each one has 1000 rounds minimum. We have 3-4 months of food stored, but I am digging my basement dirt floor deeper and concreting over it to increase my storage capacity. there is a river in the rear of the neighborhood, have water filters enough for several thousand gallons. So I have several possible plans; hang out in the house and defend it pretty well with the 50 local neighbors, leave to live with the local farmers and help them protect their places while we tend and eat our animals/products, bug-out to ND and move in with relatives and build the farmhouse. In the first two cases, we are 2 hours from 2 population centers, in ND it is a days drive away from anything, but cold winters. I have enough seed to grow a dozen gardens and currently tend a half acre each year. I give away then old seed to the local farmers and they give produce back in exchange. You need to get integrated with the locals, buy in and make them a partner in something. You help them by partnering and helping them make more profit and cushion any loses. show them that you are not afraid to work hard and you will gain their respect. same with the neighbors and others you might need to depend on some day.
Zippy, you are absoutely correct. It all depends on what this “breakdown” will look like.
1) Civil strife like South America- ok keep Gpld/silver as banks will still be operational but choose a good one as they will be held up and do not declare ur wealth as they will kidnap ur faily.
2) Nuclear war- well gold and silver is too heavy to lug around and protect or barter with.
The way I see it a mini bottle of Jack is the ultimate store of value. You see alcohol was around before gold coins and will outlast any commodity desired by humans. Cheers!!
Comments…..What can we do with silver and gold in a cashless society?
i think steveo is right on. Â We have local farmers here, and a really good farmers market where they all sell in the summers. Â Probably a good spot to meet them and get working on my “social network”. Â The guns thing is right there too. Â I served in the USMC, and this has been on my mind for a long time, but the basic plan is that you should have several firearms chambered for the most common calibers (sorry the AK/SKS doesn’t make the cut). Â I think the calibers to have (in order) are:
1, 22 long rifle (5K rounds);
2, 12 g shotgun (min 1k rounds);
3, 9mm (min 1k rounds);
4, 270, 30-06, 308 (pick one, min 1k rounds);
5, 44 mag (min 1k rounds).
the reasoning is that you have to be able to find ammo in any corner hardware store, in any town in the country. Â Also, the guns that fire the ammo need to be among the most common models, (spare parts becoming an issue). Â Assault type weapons are not all that common, and the people who own them are not generally what you would call “marksmen”, so the ammo for a weapon like an AK is likely to be all burned up within the first couple weeks of an emergency as these fools go full auto on anything coming down the road. Â Plus, you have to consider ALL the things you’ll need weapons for, like getting FOOD, not just blasting away in some “red dawn” fantasy. Â The good thing is that once an emergency does happen, and all the race haters get out there and try to start up their “race war” wet dream, they’ll be killed very quickly, leaving more food, water, and ammo for the rest of us not caught up in their delusional psychosis.
Steveo was fairly close to some of the needs,however you need to look at the larger picture.Books like the Left behind series,can give you a basic idea what to expect.solar panels ,windmills, generators sound good however you have to also look at the worse case senerios.Winds have picked up to 200 miles per hour junk blowing from hell to hackney,Millions upon millions of people homeless and desperate for food.Wealthy eliets having many personel armies to do their forageing(which means take every thing,what i don’t need i will let you split up)Lets face it most people are followers and work for the man, and it may not be any different when the time comes,The boss tells you to go out and bring stuff back or don’t come back your going to get what he wants,Otherwise you will be one of those millions that get desperate.The best you can hope for even with commune living is to be un noticed,My suggestion would be to keep it simple ,large solar panels will act like a beacon Light shining off it’s glass saying here we are We think we are strong enough to keep you out. Keep the structures simple unobtrusive and invisible from the sky .or any distance.Example of this can be noted by taking a week long backing trip into the woods,watch how the animals live,they don’t advertise where they live by making their homes gaudy, or loud,they try not to shit where they sleep,and they gather foods away from their homes.By all means Prepare,your fancy tools and generators will help to get started but don’t depend on them ,you may have to go back to basics,hand tool crafts, and learn how to use them,Guns are good but do you want to advertise where you live by useing them to hunt? Can you make and use bows,and other means of aquireing food supply If there is any around,lets face it times will be real bad,so you need to think like one of natures own ,brother fox is always out looking, brother squirel is always gathering ,And and when you have a hundred man army comming to take your stuff away , a few guns will just piss them off,So it’s best to be out of sight out of mind,,, Keep it simple on visual surface keep the goodies covered And look like you belong where you are…….But what do i know I am sure i have a long long ways to go……
Let me start by saying I am a skeptic of any collapse. that being said…
In Florida, we moved to within quick walking distance to the intracoastal and ocean and have stocked up on several years worth of tackle. As fuel will be nonexistent in a collapse, we now own kayaks and canoes. Our main challenge will be protecting what we have, so we have stocked up on enough ammo to hold back anything but a millitary unit.
In my opinion, gold and silver will be completely worthless in a collapse, because they contribute nothing to survival. Gold and silver will have value once a functioning complex economy starts up again. While gold and silver have held their value for two thousand years, this is not the same as saying that they have value at any particular time or place.  they won’t. A collapse will be extremely deflationary for items that do not keep you alive. Inflationary for those that do. We will be in a pure barter economy. I agree that liquor is a likely tradable unit – had stocked on enough for myself, may go and get more!
Likewise, if there really is a collapse such that our complex society stops working, at least half the population dies within a year from no food, water, or medical care.  Having a farm within a weeks walking distance of someplace like New York or Chicago will not work out so well as hordes of desperate, armed people start to invade the countryside..Â
Owning land in advance for survivial purposes is not necessary. There will be lots of land everywhere that is abanonded, its owners being dead or unable to get back to it given the collapse of the transportation network.   Or unable or unwilling to defend large tracks from armed intruders.
BETSY:Â Gold and silver are a primary way to preserve some of your wealth until we emerge on the other side of the CHANGES.
If you have a “bug out” location within a few hours drive of your home, bury it there four to six feet deep. Mark the spot well so you can find it again later and before you cover it up completely, drop an aluminum can on top.
Even in a “cashless” society, there will be an underground economy.
In a true TEOTWAWKI situation there will be a massive die off in the U.S. in the first two years. Perhaps 80% or more, especially the eastern states and dense urban areas across the country. There is just no way to 1) produce enough food and 2) to transport it to those who need it – they will mostly starve. Then there will be disease, and of course those who die fighting each other.
On gold & silver: In that situation, the dead will leave a lot of gold jewelry (and precious stones) behind. This makes me question the value of gold at that time, or even for many years (decades?) after organized trade starts again. I’m not too sure about silver, but the same logic may apply.
Future currencies? Alcohol and ammo come to mind. (But not in the little bottles, who wants a single shot?) Making and learning how to operate a still might be a good use of time (should be legal if don’t sell, but check your local laws), and alcohol has more uses than drinking – like fuel for some vehicles.  And the problem with trading ammo (or ‘extra’ firearms) is that you might get shot by them later.
On survival firearms: All those rounds are fine, but discounting the AK and SKS is just not realistic. There are millions of both of those all over the U.S., and stockpiles of ammo. While there are not many true assault weapons (selective fire, not the semi-auto rifles that look like an AK or M4) in the hands of civilians, there are the many civilian variants – it would be wise to have 7.63×39 and 5.56 ammo.Â
Also, the .308 and .30-06 are prohibitively expensive for most to own and use. It would be smarter to purchase a Mosin Nagant and a thousand rounds of 7.62x54R ammo in sealed ammo cans – all for about the same price as 200 rounds of .308 ammo.
While I don’t have pistols in these calibers, there are also a lot of .45 ACP, .357, and .380 out there. Probably more than the .44.
I thought long and hard about the AK/SKS. Â While there are lots of them around, the fact is that compared to others, there really aren’t that many. Â They seem prevalent to those whose aquaintences all have them too, but in the big picture, it’s a niche weapon, at least here in the US. Â If we were on the African or Asian continents, this weapon system would be a prohibitive favorite. Â Furthermore, you must be able to obtain ammo anywhere. Â In a major catastrophe, Cabelas will be closed, and all that cheap steel cased russian ammo will be nowhere to be found. Â The rounds in the 270/30-06 family have been the standard in the US since shortly after the first world war. Â All gunshops, and even most hardware stores have this ammo. Â The handgun rounds you mention are all good choices, I mentioned the 9mm because its the most popular centerfire round in the world, and the 44 works in a handgun/rifle combo I have. Â The 22 and 12 g should need no justification for any thinking person.
My goal is to get a handful of these common weapons, and a stockpile of the ammo that goes with them. Â I think that most people fantasize about the shoot-out aspect of any possible emergency and ignore the reality that firearms are most likely to be used for obtaining food (rabbits, birds, squirrels, deer, so forth). Â The most important thing will be that you are extremely proficient with your chosen weapon. Â If you can’t hit the mark every time, you may starve, or be killed. Â Magazine capacity is not an acceptable substitute for skill. Â As they taught us in the Corps, “the deadliest weapon in the world is a single well aimed round”.
Totally agree on the .22, 12 ga, and 9mm – have thousands of those rounds (esp. .22) in two locations.
However, over the past few years a lot of people have been stockpiling ammo, hence the shortages. But they arent’ shooting it. That includes 9mm and .22, but also the mid-range rounds for the AK, AR, etc. Buying by the thousands, including me and my brothers.Â
We’ll just have to agree to disagree on AK/SKS. AK sales are up 30% since Obama got in office, and SKSs have been flooding the U.S. since I got mine for less than $100 in the early 90s. There are a lot more out there than you believe.
After TSHTF, the corner store won’t be in business, along with Cabelas, so it doesn’t matter what they stock today. What you have stockpiled is what matters, or what you can barter for. In that case, having even an odd-ball caliber (and spare parts or multiple weapons) but many thousands of rounds is far better than having a common caliber with a few hundred.
We have way more than we would use in decades of hunting b/c practice is important.
I can spend $1,000 and get almost 5,000 rounds of 7.62x54R in sealed tins that will last decades. That ammo has ballistics comparable to .30-06. The rifles are less than $100 – a good scope will cost more than the rifle. Buy five rifles (we actually have), and you’ve got a good set of stand off firearms.  IMO, unless you have a lot of income to devote to ammo, the cost of .308 ammo is just too much for most people to stock up on enough to hunt long-term, use for defense, and practice. A great round, just overpriced.
is that the mosin-nagant? Â I like those ballistics a LOT better than the AK’s round. Â I already have a 30-30, and don’t see the need for another one, even if it does hold 30 shots. Â A nagant though, I seem to remember seeing those on sale recently….
There is only one way to survive this coming judgement on the USA:
Turn back to the Lord Jesus! Only Christians will survive this coming
storm. Kind of ironic, considering Christians will be hit by the storm first. Persecution of Christians will follow martial law. The Bible says this about what is coming: “For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall be the end of them that obey not the gospel of God?”
Answer: You are going to die. But I guess that isn’t “Christian”, huh?
Turn back to God or face your destruction, America.
Interesting stuff..thanks for some good ideas, but you are forgetting another great item to grow/barter/sell or use if you choose..tobacco..sure its unhealthy to smoke, but it makes a great pesticide (totally organic) AND if TSHTF, there are going to be a lot of stressed out people who cannot buy a cigarette anywhere who would gladly trade something useful or valuable for a quick nicotine fix…You can grow tobaccco plants in a flower pot or window box so you are not going to need much land, seeds are cheap and they even make nice looking flowers. plus, if you do smoke why pay $50 a carton (which is mostly taxes to support your local corrupt government hacks) when you can grow your own, have some fun and get outside to get in shape. Tobacco will grow just about anywhere in the USA (or Canada) and I think it may be the most valuable crop possible to legally grow since it commonly sells retail for $18 to $30+ a pound..No I do not work for the tobacco industry..By the way, another option if you live up north (away from Africanized bees) would be to put in a couple of bee hives on your land and learn to care for them..honey is easily stored, lasts just about forever and would be a great food or barter item..think about it if you have kids.. sweets would be in short supply and you will need bees for any sort of post- HTF agriculture..learn to care for them and handle them..its not hard and its also cheap.. by the way, I can go into my bee hives whenever I want..just move slowly and carefully, smoke a cigar and blow smoke at them (it calms them down too) and you don’t even need a protective suit to take some of their liquid gold..just ask nicely..you will have thousands of little workers all helping you to survive.. Â
You guys with your big guns Do realize that When tshtf ,Your guns discharge will be heard for miles. Which is not the case for the lowly 22. if your as good a shot as you think you are a 22 will do fine.I have owned several types of rifles. and always go back to the 22.The( AR-7 )22 survival weapon has been around for a long long time. It’s compact no nonsence.it folds away to approx 16″in it’s waterproof handle,and light as all get out.It’s ammo is cheap and if you have to bug out it stores in your back pack,When i was in the military and afterwards working for the government ,that was my perfered weapon.Like a fool i sold mine about 10 years ago.i was offered about 5 times what i paid for it plus an 18 shot conventional 22,so i took it, now the prices have gone up quite a bit and i am on a fixed income.so i have to make do with out it.The point i am getting at is Loud heavy caliper weapons will draw unwanted attention,and the ammo and weapons are heavy as hell,If you are going any distance a couple thousand rounds would be very difficult to carry, Even a couple thousand rounds of 22 would weigh maybe 10 -15 lbs. that don’t sound like a lot, but back pack and weapons and ammo weight all add up.The high power is good for moose and bear and wild hog.but a well placed 22 will do what it has to do,and it won’t be heard for miles.once you advertise where you are,you will have no peace untill they get every thing you have……
If you can afford gold and silver, great. Its better than a 401K or a big bank account to preseve some wealth. But if you can’t you can’t. Let everyone choose the weapon and ammo of their choice, I say, and a couple ar-15’s with .223 ammo will get the job done, and quietly.
With respect to water filters, absolutely, but remember a few
drops of bleach can be used to kill the germs, so have some handy. At a buck and a half a gallon, its cheap.
Agree that many millions will die in a true TEOTWAWKI and that most ammo (West of the Mississippi anyway) will be used for hunting. I don’t expect to be so near a big city that I will be in a firefight, or scavaging for gold or silver, precious stones, or any other items of value from the homes of those dead who stayed behind when I “bugged out”.
I think one poster said it best when he suggested a 12 hour maximum “commute”. But that suggests to me that he will have to refuel enroute. Not a good idea, even if you have a hybred. I’ve got it down to a couple of hours and a half a tank of gas, with fuel stored at my location, which I only expect to use in an emergency. Some people should rethink their bug out location. Planes, trains, and automobiles will not go the distance.
There is so much advice about things you should own in times of war but things you own can easily be taken away from you and papers proving your ownership of a piece of land may no longer be valid. Usually these things are acknowledged by the government but if it collapses there will be no one to vouch for and defend your ownership rights.
I was thinking…”How to procure small game without using any of my firearms and ammo”. Bought some of those humane box traps and am going to get a high quality air rifle.
Agreed Danno! Â The 22 long rifle is THE most important weapon to have bar none. Â The 22 (puny as it is) is lethal against humans and animals, does not have a sonic boom attached to it, and is cheap. Â You can buy rounds for anywhere from 4-8 cents each. Â A good semi-auto 22 with a few magazines and you’re in. Â If you stock up on some 22 shorts, you don’t need the air rifle to dispatch small game either. Â Really, you should have a couple different 22’s. Â Old 22 bolt actions are cheap and plentiful, and can be used for the 22 short chores. Â A 10/22 or Rem 597 with magazines will fill in on defense duty against small numbers, or less than determined attackers. Â You will still need larger calibers, but 90% or better of your shooting will probably be done with the 22.
Comments…..For the person wanting to learn to dehydrate food, go to http://www.dehydrate2store.com/Â . There is a wealth of information, not only on dehydration but stratagies for food storage that will actually stretch your current budget. Best of luck!
Jonny:I was about 13 when my grand pa gave me my first 22,single shot bolt action.before then i use to borrow his (28 guage. That was a beautiful weapon,but alas my aunt took it when he passed away)The events leading up to grand pa giving me the 22, was one fall afternoon, there were a lot of phasents in the field, but no one was home,so i borrowed my uncles 22, Don’t you know i had just gotten out in the field when the family pulled in to the lane. they saw me in the field and came out to see what i was doing, my uncle was a smuck. he hollard and the pheasents took flight. i tracked and shot and 2 pheasents fell out of the sky,i ran over and picked them up by that time my uncle and step dad caught up with me, my uncle saw that i had his 22 and beat the living crap out of me,then it was my step fathers turn.he pounded the hell out of me.So when we got home my grand pa braged to the rest of the family that out of all of his children and grand children with the exception of my ma was the best shot and instead of pounding me silly should be rewarded .he presented his old 22 to me. at the dinner table… my uncle and step dad was pissed, because grand pa had the last word on it… I still have that 22. I have owned it for 47 years.And have used it for both small and large game.in and out of season.I think it’s pathetic to see some one like some of my uncles with high powered weapons like the 30-06 or 243, dumping whole clips into a deer and still have to follow it a half a mile,when one well placed 22 or 28 guage shell will drop them where they stand…
Jonny:I was about 13 when my grand pa gave me my first 22,single shot bolt action.before then i use to borrow his (28 guage. That was a beautiful weapon,but alas my aunt took it when he passed away)The events leading up to grand pa giving me the 22, was one fall afternoon, there were a lot of phasents in the field, but no one was home,so i borrowed my uncles 22, Don’t you know i had just gotten out in the field when the family pulled in to the lane. they saw me in the field and came out to see what i was doing, my uncle was a smuck. he hollard and the pheasents took flight. i tracked and shot and 2 pheasents fell out of the sky,i ran over and picked them up by that time my uncle and step dad caught up with me, my uncle saw that i had his 22 and beat the living crap out of me,then it was my step fathers turn.he pounded the hell out of me.So when we got home my grand pa braged to the rest of the family that out of all of his children and grand children with the exception of my ma ,i was the best shot and instead of pounding me silly should be rewarded .he presented his old 22 to me. at the dinner table… my uncle and step dad was pissed, because grand pa had the last word on it… I still have that 22. I have owned it for 47 years.And have used it for both small and large game.in and out of season.I think it’s pathetic to see some one like some of my uncles with high powered weapons like the 30-06 or 243, dumping whole clips into a deer and still have to follow it a half a mile,when one well placed 22 or 28 guage shell will drop them where they stand…
I have a 22 single shot bolt action that was my grandfathers, don’t know the make. Â There are lots of them around, the ones where you load the shell, then pull out the doo-hickey on the rear of the bolt to cock it. Â Accurate as hell. Â That being said, I also have other (modern) 22’s, but they aren’t any more fun (or effective) to shoot than the old one. Â The overall lack of accuaracy in modern shooting is the one reason that I think all the AK set will be out of ammo in a real emergency. Â They might have a billion rounds now, but they haven’t started up the red dawn fantasy shootouts yet, and when they do, you know those boys won’t hold back. Â They’ll shoot until they’re dry. Â I plan to watch the whole thing from a hill top somewhere.
I think very few if any could survive on the land if the asteroid hits tomorrow. Except the handfull of  grizzly adams types living in very remote areas where there is still wildlife and land to live off.
The main thing you will need in the populated areas will be weapons to protect yourself from all the people that will be trying to steal anything you have that they can eat, find shelter, etc. But the little wildlife and plants available will be gone overnight….Many have invested in forms of gold…but physical gold is the only money worth anything in a primitive situation. Most people dont have this.
Just remember in the end who brought down civilization when it happens. The carpetbaggers like Soros will not be allowed to go unpunished when that time comes.
right you are, We use to practice with that rifle barkin squirels. aint no biggie to hit one, but to kill one by hitting the bark in front of them to make them jump was more sporting,it gave them a chance at least. if they fell off the limb they could try to catch another limb before they hit the ground.of course if your gonna bark them make sure they are high enough in the tree to give them a chance of catching some other limbs and that way if they don’t get a limb and they do hit the ground they won’t just get cripled .don’t want that, they are very agial and can usually catch a limb, and that makes them more aware that you are gonna get them if they keep foolin around up there.It’s really just practicing ,
Very few modern Americans have the know how to hunt, whether is be small game or large. Hunting as a pastime or in necessity has declined every year for the past forty years  There will mass human starvation long before wild game populations dwindle. You know the types; They will denegrate the hell out of you for being a sportsman and “killing those poor animals” then immediately head down the street for a blue cheese baconburger at Chili’s.
Modern civilization has fully conditioned human beings into an existence that’s ripe for extinction.
Comments…..
The one thing that no one on this entire blog has stated is how to create a new way of being. EVERONE is in protection mode…. and rightly so. But no ground can be gained by being in a defensive posture. Keep yourself safe and build up what you need- but what’s really needed is a new way of living- and better way. Why do we need money? Why do we need to money as a medium of exchange? Technology has always marked the upward movement of society( and sometimes downward if applied incorrectly) and is up to us to figure out how we can get our needs met without having to use the fake money. Challenge yourself to think of ways to do this and I’m not really talking about barter as a form of exchange. Collective energy farms, and food farms. Housing that uses the latest forms of energy efficienceies and materials..and list goes on and on. PEOPLE WORKING TOGETHER NOT CONSUMED BY OVERPROTECTING.All the revolutions are over resources( freedoms included) being cut off intentionally by the self appointed ‘rulling elite’ or by natural or mostly deliberate supplies being withheld – largerly for politcal reasons. Think, share, be brave, stay in you heart no matter what, have a clean intentions, get inspired and follow that inspiration…. the rest will work out in time
Comments…..
I reference to the above comment by gainsmore:
check out
http://thezeitgeistmovement.com/
being able to hunt and fish will be critical skills in a mass disaster.
Jonny v;
Yep, the Mosin Nagant. Try AIM Surplus. Re; AKs – a lot of guys who own AK/AR, etc. w/30 rnd mags are thinking the same thing you are; watch things from a distance and conserve ammo. Some will burn through it, many others will not. Including me and mine.
Danno;
Actually, almost all .22 ammo is supersonic (has the sonic boom ‘crack’). But you can buy subsonic .22 ammo if you look for it, which does not make the ‘crack’ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Long_Rifle#Subsonic
But not having hi-powered options as well is not ideal. For .22 rifles, I suggest a Marlin Model 60 – tube fed semi-auto, cheap, most produced .22 rifle around. Â
zukadu;
Install extra fuel tanks (for trucks, anyway). No need to refuel with toolbox tanks.
“He who lives by the sword dies by the sword.”
Do you really want to kill others? And hunting for survival might be left for hunters. Are you truly one? Or would you better serve you & yours in some other way- get to know your neighbors! Figure out where you fit in where you are now. Babylon wasn’t built in a day; it won’t disintegrate in one either.  After decades of preparing, you, like I,  may be as prepared as one can be in food storage, well drilling, gun collecting, but just not be lucky. After all, the after effects of a thermo-nuclear blast blow with the wind. What made Jesus barterable is what I’ve focused on.
“…gentle as a lamb but smart as a serpent.”
Comments….. Alex IS Loud and Obnoxious. He’d be MUCH more effective and his words would carry a lot more weight if he toned it down. He comes into a talk like he needs to shout in order to be heard. C’mon Alex, wise up.
Comments….. Paying off your debt may well be a foolish play. The entire country is going down. MOST will default and it’ll become so bad that money will become worthless. Skyrocketing inflation and worthless dollars. Look what China just announced. Who’s gonna buy your “stuff”? What’s it worth?  Over 90% of America will walk away from UNSECURED debt. Credit cards will become useless. Debit cards may be the only credit form available. Cash will again be King, ie; precious metals, or new local currencies backed by gold or silver. Community economies will spring up.Â
Many have expoused DEFAULTING NOW and buying it back for peanuts later on. The big banks greed and gluttony – along with crooked politicians, and in many instances our own greed brought this all about. Major TV networks and newspapers aided the scam but big Government and Wall Street crippled this country. We need to return the favor.
If the collapse is next week, then of course getting debt free doesn’t matter. If the collapse is within the next couple of years, maybe out to 5 years, the sooner you’re debt free the sooner you’ll free up capital to buy the things you need to weather the storm.
I wouldn’t think anyone here wishes the opportunity to shoot another person. The best survival skills are to be learned from wildlife: be weary, leary, and scarce.Â
I live in rural America. Believe me, there are so many old homestead/farmstead places that are vacant and could be fixed up if people wanted to approach the landowners about ownership or renting. I don’t know why people aren’t looking at these possibilities and get out of the cities/suburbs…get back to the land now! BTW, paying off your debts is the only moral thing to do, after all, someone sold you something that they purchased or produced, and it’s just immoral to rip people off with the excuse that the country is going down.
Kitty,
 I agree with you 100%. The credit card debit reductions, lower your car payment, settle your IRS tax debit commercials really piss me off. You took the goods, agreed to the terms / payments, now cowboy up and make good. The commercials that say “its not your fault” that REALLY fries my ass. YES, IT IS YOUR FAULT !!!! Sure as hell isnt mine. So, you own company X $5000. You “settle for pennies on the dollar” and pay them $2500. Next time I need something from company X guess whos getting charged more for company Xs products as they try to recoup from the $2500 hit they just took. This is the reason were in this situation in the 1st place. People buying more than they can make good on. After all I’m intitled to that big house and the BMW………………….
No one mentioned Monsanto. You can buy their seed, but they have conveniently placed a “terminator” in the seed so they can make more money as the seed will not reproduce. Our world in which we live in is a scary place indeed!
When it comes to war or revolution, ask those who experienced the events.
If you ask a Ukrainian old person (over 85) what to stock up if a war is expected the answer is sure to be – 3 things: SALT, SOAP, and MATCHES. This set was tried in 2 major wars, 1 revolution, 2 famines, 1 civil war. Land will be plenty. Gold will almost be useless – there were times when people exchanged 1 kilo of gold for 1 kilo of bread. Yet, of course gold is better than paper money J
Faber has a TERRIBLE track record. The man is a joke, like most everyone else in the media. Only an idiot cannot see that.Â
What’s going to happen when all the pillheads cant get their meds? and they resort to the next fix, food… none. We will create for ourselves one violent country. Look at our kids? They are all on something the good ole doc has prescribed and selfish, self indulging and when they dont get what they want… they are going to hotline you.. their parent, which means tons and tons of legal issues which is great for attorneys and courts as they conveniently suck the life out of every one of us.  We need to wake up and see what is going on all around us.. the financial system, the courts and police and lawyers, wall street, the suckers (zapping the good people) into the 3rd world.  Unfortunately for them, they are someday going to wake up and find that they have created this monstrous (beastly) world that was … well…sooo goood them in the past. Now they will be running for their lives!Â
food will be the only bargaining power of the future!
According to the news TV and print scmedia the recovery is well under way and the stock market will retest highs 2010-2012. They think a jobless recovery will occur and after taxing the remaining “rich” into the poor farm, all will be honky-dory.
I am a believer in biflation. The value of houses and cars will fall another 40-60% in the next four years.  The value of food and energy will double within three years, quadruple by 6/2014. Obama’s 2012 budget will contain so many emergency measures that it might top $3 trillion, with almost $1 trillion in MOOCHER CITIZEN giveaways to the 22-28% unemployed during that summer.
Lots of good specific information here, as well as (I suspect) a sound general political outlook (pro-Constitution, pro-liberty, pro-survival, pro-Christian, I’d hope pro-white American, but I’m not sure …). But, man, the macro-nutcase scenarios that are being imagined as a result of mere economic idiocy on the part of the Obama Admin are truly hilarious.
Yes, we should all, as proud, independent-minded Americans, be more mindful of disaster possibilities, and how to survive them. And we should all begin actually accumulating the necessary goods to enable that survival. I’m very remiss here, I know. I badly need to catch-up.
But where is the evidence that would lead to speculations of not only total economic collapse, but even social collapse? When, outside of (state-initiated) warfare, has such a collapse ever occurred? This is ludicrous!! It shows unbelievable economic ignorance on the part of persons whose basic understanding (live debt-free, govt needs to be radically downsized, non-traditional values are bad, non-white immigration = foreign invasion, etc) of the world is correct.
Simply because the Fed (an institution I hate, and which should be abolished) is leading us down a path of much higher inflation doesn’t mean there will be hyper-inflation. Even should there be hyper-inflation, it doesn’t follow that the whole economy will collapse. Even if we entered a second Great Depression, it doesn’t follow that the whole society would suddenly collapse.
You cannot merely assert these outcomes. Their likelihood must be rationally demonstrated.
“The vast majority of Americans live paycheck to paycheck…Where’s the money to buy gold and land???”
I earn $12 an hour. My wife earns $15 an hour. I work 50 hours a week she works 16 hours a week, We have two kids and rent a house. We don’t buy big screen TVs. We don’t buy expensive dangurous packaged foods. We don’t buy $200 Cell phones, $1000 PCs or waste $100 a month on Cable/dish services with 200 channels of brain numbing garbage. We don’t own a $500 video game system. We don’t own four DVD players and three LCD TVs. We don’t buy new cars every 2 -3 years. We don’t own a credit card. I drive a motorcycle which gets 60 MPG and costs $100 per year to insure. I can go on and on..
If you want all of that stuff.. than buy it. If you want all that stuff AND land and gold/silver. buy it.. If you can afford it. If you live paycheck to paycheck like me and my wife and you want to buy land and gold.. than do what we do.. and you will have plenty of money to buy gold.
We pay our bills and rent. Have new cloths for the kids and plenty of food and we still save $300 per WEEK.. plus every dime of our income tax return for the past three years.. What does this add up to? We will have just about $50,000 worth of commodities in a personal hidden secured safe by the end of this year.
“It’s not that hard” guy … you SHOULD own a no fee credit card. Basically it is equivalent to an interest free l0an each month, provided that you pay it off in full each month. You sound disciplined enough to do so, so why wouldn’t you take advantage of this? In fact, if you get a no fee card that is part of some points system, you can actually earn money / services / rewards doing this.