107 Comments

1. TnAndy on March 2, 2011 at 11:36 am

   People who put deadlines on major events turn out to be wrong most of the time.

2. Anonymous on March 2, 2011 at 11:41 am

   I wish my name was Woody.

3. Lady Hawk on March 2, 2011 at 11:48 am

   “…SGT Bull: It doesn’t matter, we just know it’s coming…”
   And folks here know which way the wind is blowing.

4. GA Mom on March 2, 2011 at 11:52 am

   Things are moving at a rapid pace.  I don’t think there is much time left.

5. Gods Creation on March 2, 2011 at 11:53 am

   The more you can do for yourself right now the less the ultimate collapse will affect you.  Until then, it will happen when it happens and not when somebody else says it will.
    

6. Man Up on March 2, 2011 at 12:32 pm

   There is still time to prepare – until that time arrives!

   We know it’s coming, we just don’t know when. If you’re not ready by the end of March it could be too late!

   Every day I wake up and we are still in the status quo, I do something to add to my preparedness. It’s overwhelming what needs to be done and time is short. I suggest you do the same. Please!!!

   And stop laughing at me; I’m only listening to my gut!
    

7. Laura m. on March 2, 2011 at 12:35 pm

   This prediction was made many times before, and each time these predictions seem to tie in with current events esp. now..Many people I know are still invested in paper (stocks, bonds, cd’s, 401k, etc)  Some people I know that are, yet they are very savvy but have to live off the dividends, interest to make ends meet. Since nothing has yet happened after many predictions, some just don’t think it will.

8. Jonny V on March 2, 2011 at 12:41 pm

   There’s a new series starting up on History Channel this week (today/tomorrow?) called Prophets of Doom.  I think the first guy up is Celente, and the show’s topic is all about how the US is collapsing.  They’ve run similar shows in the past, like the one about how our infrastructure is falling apart.
   I think the interesting thing is that there are more of these “end of the world” shows now than ever before.  In the old days, it was all post-nuclear type stuff (Damnation Alley with George Peppard and the greatest BOV of all time), but now, it’s all post economic collapse.  There are a LOT of people thinking about this topic.  We have zombie shows, colony shows, Survivorman, Bear Grils (sp?), infrastructure, Prophet of Doom, the world after people, nightly news coverage of riots and revolutions, so on and so on.
   I’m using up some of my precious ammo stockpile teaching my daughter how to shoot.  Praise be to God, Allah, Buddha, Great Spirit, and any other religious honchos I can think up if she never NEEDS to shoot.

9. redgypsy on March 2, 2011 at 12:48 pm

   The S***s in the wind. Hang on!
    
   Red

10. AZ Ready on March 2, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    It is simply a matter of time. I myself didn’t believe we could have lasted as long as we have since I started prepping 30 years ago. However, the snowball has now reached the bottom of the hill and is about to run over everyone that isn’t prepared to move out of the way of it. Anyone who tries to say the exact time is a fool as it could happen this afternoon. All we can do is watch and wait, then when the SHTF we are ready. I am glad to see there are more people out there who understand what is happening and are getting ready. Less people I have to defend against!

11. Bluebore on March 2, 2011 at 1:09 pm

    Remember folks they can keep this game for several more years and even up to 5 or more years .Its up to them when to the plug . Bernanke and others are lieing throught thier lips because they dont want to take the blame for what will occur at some point in time . The excuse will be we dont know what it happened and didnt see it coming, the typical lie of cource .But this summer we will see soem unemployment numberes drop as summer approaches so we will basically be going in a sideways motion . they can hold this together for another year when QE3# kicks in later this summer and it will happen and so wil la QE4 later on .They have to keep finding ways of injecting the system with cash or it will rapidly fall . This is were they are at at  .They have zero interest bank loans out to spur the economy but its not getting better .Inflation is occuring and sooner or later they will have to raise interest rates up whihcwill further hurt the economy so its a catch 22 scenerio for th Government . for Obama to have a chnae at running again in 2012 they must stabilise the economy somewhat before the elections .They have to paint a picture of increased employment, lower debt  and cuts to make it look good .That will be thier focus this summer and going into 2012 . but the whole thing is based upon deceit and lies and manipulation on the highest of levels  .The markets are all artifically pumped up because what has america Done productionwise to justify all the growth and increases? answer:Nothing, its all money being pumped into it with massive insider tradeing occuring .  Well the ame is rigged and those that know or see it need to remove themselves from it .This next go around will be far worse than in 2008 and the only thing left faceing us is a biugger amount of finacial debt that will never be repayable in our lifetimes .

12. allen on March 2, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    I work for ups,   and several yrs ago i started  taking home 55 gal barrels  from a food product co   next  to my place.   they just throw them in the dumpster. metal open top with seal-able  ring;   food grade as well as plastic with canola oil in them.  i dumped the residue oil in 5 gal  buckets salvaged from penera bread, as my son works there,   and  to get to my point,   my co workers used to  mock me,  4.5 yrs  ago,  even up untill a week ago.  this morning,  people   were asking me questions as they see the dollar inflating by food prices,  and fuel  going up.   they would call me,  crazy uncle al.  one of my critics,”  billy”,  now,  bought a wahl set of clippers, to trim his beard as the price of blades went to 5 bucks.   i have been doing this for ever.  btw,  they dont know i have been selling the buckets on craigs list for 20 bucks a pop and the buckets,  for 10 bucks a pop.
    I sold one doctor 130 barrels, and 110 buckets,  as he is a super prepper
    any  i have a farmer friend  who organically grows  soft red wheat and open pollinated corn,  and  can  the wheat,  good for  pancakes, and biscuits and donnuts,  a 50 # bag   for  30 bucks  a bag,    and the corn  for 40 bucks a  bag.  dont know if that is a deal  but i dont pay shipping  from  idaho.
    if interested  e mail me at   [email protected]
    
    
    
    

13. manos on March 2, 2011 at 1:27 pm

    In some previous discussion someone expressed the view that the whole collapse thing would be a slow gradual process. I think it was Durango Kid.
    This seems to me possible, since it’s not to their best interest to destroy everything at once.
    They prefer to create those conditions in which we will work like chinese slaves, have no motive other than our daily food, and produce all the crap for the rich kids of Merkel’s empire.
    It’s better for them to have armies of ants to work rather than to extinguish them at once. All crap about overpopulation, climate change, food decrease, and energy resources, fall in the sphere of the “State of fear”.
    A condition in which the governments create problems, and at the same time provide the solutions.
    Be safe guys

14. laura m. on March 2, 2011 at 2:00 pm

    AZ ready:  I kinda prep like the survivalist blog rec. (Creekmore)  Five people have died (two recently) who were long term hard core preppers, amazing amount of stuff incl wood stoves. Several of them got me started in the early 80’s.  Did they prep in vain?  Their heirs  think so.  I just don’t want to burden anyone with  stuff someday so I am more moderate.  Perhaps what we do will be in vain someday.  Many prepped for y2k and refuse to do so now as they say it’s all hype.

15. Jim on March 2, 2011 at 2:09 pm

    While it is true that many people have predicted the end many times before…never had we had so many things all happening at one time. Not only are we dealing with the high price of oil and the collapse of the dollar and a Govt. which wants to destroy the country from the inside and on and on.
    This is just something we have never been up against before and nobody knows what to do or what will happen.
    Gotta go finish packing more beans and rice!

16. AZ Ready on March 2, 2011 at 2:48 pm

    @ laura m, I just learned a long time ago to prepare for the unexpected, whatever that may be. As time has pasted, things have gotten worse, but I have always looked at being prepared as self insurance. I never really over did it, especially with the whole Y2K thing, but now things are different. I hope everyhting I have done and continue to do are in vain because I don’t want to see a collapse, but I am ready if it does. If I die before it happens then someone has a sh.. load of food and stuff to deal with!!!!

17. michelle on March 2, 2011 at 2:58 pm

    clif the web bot guy is preparing to be ready by July 15.  The economy is bad, but evidently the sun cycle is the bigger issue here.  he has predicted the death of the dollar (it’s been in the data sets a long time) but is most concerned about the “grid down” situation that will occur when the CME’s start in earnest.  The cycles are 87 and some odd change long – the first one of note was August 1, when we had a “sunquake” and we’re looking at a really major one October 11 this year.  Before that one is July 20.  He’s of the opinion it’s better to be a cycle early than late.
    So prep for economic collapse, but be ready for something worse, – if you are on the wrong side of the planet when the sun goes funky then it probably won’t matter.  The pole shift may very well take out 90% of humans.
    http://www.halfpasthuman.com – the top article is the new one and I would recommend that you listen to the interview with Patrick Geryl although I agree with clif on that Geryl is wrong about certain parts of his theory – but NOT the sun parts.  He’s off on the earth parts.
    Stock many more years of storable food preppers – this could be the “BIG ONE”. where nothing can be grown for some time (years) due to the setting off of most if not all volcanoes on the planet.   At least two years I would say of nothing growing due to lack of sunlight and cold temps.  Being close to the equator would not be the worst idea.
    I am kind of hoping the economy collapses sooner rather than later and the re-valuation of silver happens rapidly (before the collapse preferably) so I can afford to stockpile more and secure a better place to be.

18. Johnny5 on March 2, 2011 at 3:05 pm

    Hey Laura,

    Just ask them this question:  “Do you wear your seatbelt, safety glasses or hard  hat for all the times you didn’t need them?

    The answer if obvious.  Of course not, you wear them for the one time you do.  The same logic holds true for preps.  I would rather burdern my children with my preps than have to watch them starve or freeze.

    All the best,

19. MadMarkie on March 2, 2011 at 3:10 pm

    I can’t really believe that the elites & PTB can keep the farce that is our economy going for very much longer. The only thing that isn’t going up is the wages of those who still have employment. 50 million people on food stamps? And food stamps amount to what? I understand that it’s about $140 per month per person, max benefit. Have you ever tried to feed 1 person for one month on the amount of food that $140 will buy? That won’t even put ‘beenie-weenies’ in your stomach for one month! 

    Soon boys and girls …… very soon. God Bless and good luck to all.

20. Sheldon Plankton on March 2, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    #1.  The notion the the US gubmint would allow the Chinese to occupy our soil through eminent domain is laughable.  It’s even funnier to think that the Chinese would accept the offer.  300 million guns in civilian hands might make them a little leery. 

    #2.  I followed Web Bot predictions for about a year and plotted them against actual events, and found that the Web Bot is a big silly piece of always wrong. There are enough real risks to prep for; Clif High sells BS to fools.  

21. Durango Kidd on March 2, 2011 at 3:42 pm

    Manos: If there is one lesson that the American people should have taken from Watergate and reinforced by the Financial Crisis, its this: “Follow the money!”

    There is no profit in collapse unless you own ALL of the gold. If you were the PTB would you want to lose all of the wealth stored in your paper assets? Of course not. Inflation by a thousand cuts.

    Gold is better than silver. Silver is better than copper. Lead is best. They won’t be making any more of it when the Changes come. Get yours now.

22. Chris C. on March 2, 2011 at 3:45 pm

    It is very dangerous to make time predictions, as someone here already stated. You can be the smartest investor in the world, but if you’re off by 6 months to a year, you still lose everything.
     
    Take Gerald Celente. He said that Xmas 2009 was going to be the first Xmas where we all give each other food. So much for that.
     
    Others made similar predictions for the following Xmas. Still didn’t happen.
     
    Still, his message is spot-on. And make no mistake about it, it is coming. Be it 6 months, 1, 5 or more years, it is coming. Just please don’t make any more time predictions.

23. Anonymous on March 2, 2011 at 4:03 pm

    I like beenie weenies but they don’t like me the next day.  If they could just 2X the weenies, I’d be happy.

24. Durango Kidd on March 2, 2011 at 4:16 pm

    Oh yeah, BTW. As a rule of thumb, the price of oil has been doubling every ten years since 1973. So, by 2013 it should be about $112 per barrel. Current prices should not be a surprise to anyone. That includes the peaks and valleys associated with revolution, war, and overproduction over 40 years. 

    This time is its different. Add China, India, and Indonesia into the mix. Go solar asap. New technology is 40% efficient.

25. Chuckles on March 2, 2011 at 4:42 pm

    Once a year my church takes up food for the local crisis center. I rotate my supplies that way, so nothing gets wasted.

26. michelle on March 2, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    @Durango Kid
     
    Peter Schiff disagrees with you on the metals pecking order:
     
    Silver Outweighs Gold
    Peter Schiff

    In the world of precious metals, silver spends a lot of time in the shadow of its big brother gold.
    Gold, with its high price-to-weight and distinctive yellow tint, has always occupied a special place in the human psyche. To many people across many ages, gold is simply the ultimate form of money – and, as a long-term, stable store of value for one’s personal wealth, I agree it’s hard to beat.
    However, rare circumstances are aligning today that I believe will make silver the true champion of this bull run.
    What’s Driving Precious Metals?
    Gold and silver are both benefitting from a perfect storm in the sector.
    Dollar devaluation means that much of the ‘gains’ we see are really just losses by people holding dollars. In other words, if your dollars lose 50% of their value, it’s going to take twice as many of them to buy the same ounce of gold.
    But the rally is based on more than simple inflation. Precious metals are regaining their role as the ultimate reserve asset. That means many, many more people are buying and holding these metals than at any time in the last thirty years.
    Another factor is the rise of emerging markets and decline of developed markets. As billions of poor Asians, Africans, and South Americans lift themselves out of poverty by embracing the free market, the US is plunging itself into poverty by rejecting it. This means there are a mind-boggling number of new customers for jewelry, savings, and industrial products that require precious metals – and that we are becoming less and less able to outbid them for these resources with our dollars.
    Silver’s Driving Faster
    If the world were going to hell in a hand-basket, then I would expect gold to outperform silver. However, it is only the developed economies that are on the rocks – and only the US that faces true catastrophe. Thus, we have seen silver outperform gold for the last eight years.
    The market is telling us that while uncertainty reigns supreme, the global economy will prosper in the years ahead. While gold most effectively insures the investor against economic devastation, silver offers both a shield against monetary turmoil and exposure to market growth.
    The Key: Industrial Demand
    This is because silver is both a precious metal and an industrial metal. Gold is mostly precious, copper is mostly industrial, but silver strikes a fine balance between the two. And it seems as if this moment in history is perfectly suited to this balance. We are facing not only the prospect of the collapse of the international monetary order, but also the largest industrialization process the world has ever seen.
    While in a past era, wood, steel, or oil would have been the most critical commodity, today silver is used in everything we hold dear: iPhones, flat-screen TVs, batteries, solar panels, etc. Asia – the new heart of the global economy – is accumulating gold, but they’re consuming silver. That makes both metals good bets, but likely gives silver the edge.
    It’s safe to say the future depends on a steady supply of silver. This burgeoning demand is reflected in the latest figures: global demand for silver is about 890 million ounces a year, while global mine production is about 720 million ounces a year. We’re actually consuming scrap to make up the difference. And unlike gold, which tends to remain in a recoverable state as coins or jewelry, a large quantity of silver is ending up in trash dumps – where it is essentially lost forever.
    As long as the emerging markets continue to trend toward freer markets, and consumers the world over continue to demand computers, electronics, and green tech, silver should only become more scarce – and thus more valuable. I think these assumptions are pretty safe to make.
    Can the World Thrive Ex-US?
    Of course, if everyone agreed with me, silver would already be worth hundreds of dollars an ounce and there wouldn’t be any profit to be made on the trade. Fortunately, there are a couple of bogeymen in the financial media scaring the majority of investors away from silver so far.
    First, some analysts still believe – bless their hearts – that the US is really going to pull through this time into a sustainable recovery. After being duped by dot-coms and then housing, they are all aboard the Treasury Express back to Bubbletown. Unfortunately, as in the previous two cases, the current low interest rate environment is merely masking an underlying economy that is vastly more rotten than it was even a decade ago. The unemployment rate is a key signal that this time, Bernanke’s magic medicine won’t work.
    A second cohort sees that the US is doomed, but still thinks we will drag the rest of the world down with us. This is the school that holds that despite our persistent current account deficits and monumental external debt, the world economy “needs” the US consumer to drive growth. As I alluded to in my book, How An Economy Grows And Why It Crashes, this is like a plantation master claiming his slaves need him around to consume the fruits of their labor, or else they wouldn’t have anything to do. Well, the results are in: after an initial panic rush into dollar-based assets, emerging markets are back at full sprint while the US is still limping along.
    Silver in a Dollar Collapse
    Just like a Hollywood celebrity, we in the US spent our time at the top of the world – and soon let our status get to our heads. And like a celebrity, our adoring fans the world over will be quick to forget us as we fall from the limelight and deal with our powerful addiction to partying and cheap money. To survive the next decade in America, you are going to want an asset that is in demand globally, but is also free from counterparty risk here at home.
    I recently did an interview with a group that is making a film about living in America in the year 2019. The premise is that inflation is rampant, the economy is in shambles, and groups are springing up that do all their trading in silver rounds. While I think their timeline is quite generous, this is a fairly accurate picture of what lies ahead.
    Not only does silver appreciate while sitting in your safe due to overseas demand, but it also comes in units that are ideal for use as a common trade unit. Two or three ounces of silver can buy you groceries for a week. By contrast, just try to eat an ounce of gold’s worth of vegetables before they spoil. There are fractional gold coins and bars, but they carry very high markups.
    None of us have had to think about these things in our lifetimes, but it is not abnormal in history. Soon, understanding precious metals will be as much a survival skill as knowing how to change a car tire.
    The Golden Ratio
    I always say that every investor should have at least 5-10% of his portfolio in physical precious metals. Of that, the proportion allocated to gold vs. silver depends mainly on risk tolerance. Silver tends to be more volatile than gold, so silver investors must have the discipline not to liquidate their stash at the first sign of a correction.I generally advise a ratio of 2:1 gold-to-silver in the average portfolio. More aggressive investors can push it to 1.5:1 or beyond.
    Year-to-date, silver is up 5 percentage points more than gold, and I expect that trend to continue. It’s important to understand that in this fast-changing world, silver is no longer runner-up.
    Mr. Schiff is one of the few non-biased investment advisors (not committed solely to the short side of the market) to have correctly called the current bear market before it began and to have positioned his clients accordingly. As a result of his accurate forecasts on the U.S. stock market, economy, real estate, the mortgage meltdown, credit crunch, subprime debacle, commodities, gold and the dollar, he is becoming increasingly more renowned. He has been quoted in many of the nation’s leading newspapers, including The Wall Street Journal, Barron’s, Investor’s Business Daily, The Financial Times, The New York Times, The Los Angeles Times, The Washington Post, The Chicago Tribune, The Dallas Morning News, The Miami Herald, The San Francisco Chronicle, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, The Arizona Republic, The Philadelphia Inquirer, and the Christian Science Monitor, and appears regularly on CNBC, CNN, Fox News, Fox Business Network, and Bloomberg T.V. His best-selling book, “Crash Proof: How to Profit from the Coming Economic Collapse” was published by Wiley & Sons in February of 2007. His second book, “The Little Book of Bull Moves in Bear Markets: How to Keep your Portfolio Up When the Market is Down” was published by Wiley & Sons in October of 2008. Mr. Schiff began his investment career as a financial consultant with Shearson Lehman Brothers, after having earned a degree in finance and accounting from U.C. Berkeley in 1987. A financial professional for over twenty years he joined Euro Pacific in 1996 and has served as its President since January 2000. An expert on money, economic theory, and international investing, Peter is a highly recommended broker by many leading financial newsletters and investment advisory services. He is also a contributing commentator for Newsweek International and served as an economic advisor to the 2008 Ron Paul presidential campaign. He holds FINRA Series 4,7,24,27,53,55, & 63 licenses.
    http://www.europac.net
    .

27. michelle on March 2, 2011 at 5:17 pm

    @Plankton:
    Clif is not selling bullsh@t
    But their timing is often incorrect and his interpretations of the data is often misleading – and generally focuses on the negative
    predictive linguistics is not an exact science
    and he’s never claimed it is
    that being said – I would not miss one of his reports or interviews – ever!!
     
    Just listened to an interview today posted on geraldcelentechannel.blogspot
     
    parting advice:
    prepare for food crisis and currency crisis
     
    BS?  I think not!
     

28. JJ on March 2, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    Comments…..

    Jonny V..the prophet of doom is on my calendar for Thursday night..8:00..history channel.
    Made a note last week.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    MadMarkie—family of 4 with $560???  Man, you didn’t grow up like I—or you don’t shop at Aldi’s and SavA-Lot!!
    I can do darn good with that for a month and have left over!!!

    You do realize that’s..uh….18.60 a day??? OMG—dried beans and potatoes, rice and black beans, kraut and weiners, meatloaf and peas…..let me have that money and I’m in heaven..LORDY!!!

29. scott on March 2, 2011 at 5:29 pm

    I have to agree with the majority on this one. There are very few people out there denying something is coming, only issue is they are not prepared for what it will be. Well none of us really understand the impact but I think we are all in agreement that it isn’t going to be very nice.

30. Durango Kidd on March 2, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    Michelle: Thanks for the read. I have lots of metal. All metals. So I know the arguments pro and con pretty well. What Schiff misses in his analysis, and which you may not yet be aware, is that there are many new technologies in the works that will replace silver in many industrial processes.

    Silver will always be coveted by the masses because it is so  much cheaper to buy than gold or platinum. But the PTB covet gold and platimum and the Central Banksters are buying gold by the hundreds of tons. Aren’t they? And they control the “money” don’t they?

    In the long run gold is the metal to own if you can. Many states have gold. If you can’t buy it. Pan for it. Of course in the long run we’re all dead. But in the interim gold is the metal to own if you can.

    And buy all the “lead” you can. They won’t be making any more of it after the Changes. Thanks.

31. Durango Kidd on March 2, 2011 at 5:46 pm

    Michelle: Another reason silver production is down as Schiff noted is because demand for copper has been crippled by the housing collapse in the USA, otherwise copper would be higher than it is generating more production, and silver is usually a significant by-product of copper mines.

    There’s a lot of new silver mines in the works too, so we could be looking at a glut of silver in a few of years.

    Got gold?

32. crash and burn on March 2, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    this coming collapse is been in the works for a couple of decades.
    1. we allowed imports in with little or no import tax
    2. we allowed manufacturing jobs to go overseas
    3. we allowed companies to merge and buy each other to where there isnt any competition allowing them to set any price they want.
    4. we have allowed the govt. to step in to the private sector and bail them out. (bank of america  and others isnt the first time) anyone remember the saving and loan crisis in the 80’s.
    so i dont think the collapse will happen tomorrow but we are defintiley on the edge. so anything that would be catastrophic ex. hurricanes, earthquakes, mass flooding could send us over the brink. just my 2 cents

33. Radiowave on March 2, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    Life jackets please everyone… The band is playing ”Nearer my God to Thee”….

34. Jonny V on March 2, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    Perfect Beenie-Weenie Recipe!
     
    1 pound Little Beef Smokies or Beef Smoked Sausage, roughly diced
    1/2 pound Fletcher’s bacon, diced
    1 large onion, sliced
    1 red or orange bell pepper, julienned
    2 20 ounce cans Bush’s baked beans
    1/2 cup honey
     
    Put some butter in a cast iron dutch oven and brown the little smokies.  Put the little smokies to the side.  Then fry the bacon bits until crisp, put them to the side, and retain grease in the pan.  Add the onion and the bell pepper to the pan and carmelize them.
    Add the little smokies and the bacon back into the mix, add the honey and the beans.  Warm over low heat for one hour and serve.
    The recipe can be improved by using home-made baked beans with molasses based sauce (NOT ketchup beans, those are gross).  You can also add a bunch of cerrano peppers to heat it up if you like spicy.
     
    There you have a good SHTF beenie-weenie recipe!
     
     
     

35. stan on March 2, 2011 at 6:16 pm

    And yet, all things continue as they have.  The media continue to cheerlead, the stores continue to report robust sales, people continue to buy houses and cars and clothes.  All things continue to go on. 

    So, when the collapse?

36. VRF on March 2, 2011 at 6:43 pm

    Any one on here good with solar energy and systems?
    How much will 800 sf of solar panels get me in energy?
    and how much should i expect the cost to be for the system?
    and any more info on this

37. johnf on March 2, 2011 at 6:44 pm

    Comments…..Stan it makes you wonder, on gerald celente’s blog they have an investment company’s advertisement that says chance of stock market crash by march 31st, it previously said jan 31st, february 28.sooner or later the prediction will be close. I am prepping but because i think things are on there way out and figure best to safe then sorry.

38. kaynine on March 2, 2011 at 7:45 pm

    Comments…..pavlovs dogs!!! my daughter came home from conditioning (school) the other day talking about pavlov and his dogs being studied in  her phyc class .  and I said, you have to be kidding, they still teach that garbage as a viable study?  all hell broke loose….. dad!! you don’t know what your talking about. you do not have a degree in physc. I replied, you should see how advanced they have gotten,and i proceded to show her,We have had these lessons before,but on different subjects.this is how we are manipulated AND CONDITIONED, far more than pavlov ever dreamed of. All advertising TV SHOWS ,MOVIES,RAIDO. SCHOOL,INTERNET, RUFF!! RUFF!! i winsaid charlie sheen

39. Anonymous on March 2, 2011 at 7:54 pm

    VRF:
    Never heard anybody ask solar in terms of sqft before, so I did a quick calculation.  Using Solarworld 245w panels, which I’ve got in the basement right now for my NEXT array, they measure about 40×66″….or 18.3sqft.   So 800 sqft would be about 10.7kw in panels.
    System that size ( I assume you’d want battery backup ) will run 8-10bucks/watt, installed……could run a bit more IF you get REALLY good batteries. ( Like Surrette )…..so you’re talking in the neighborhood of 100grand.   By the way, that’s a LOT of system. Most locations, ( unless yours is really crappy ) you’ll find that will generate 800-1000kw/hrs/month…..WAY more than you need for basic refrigeration, some lights and a few amenities.
    I have a 3.15kw system now, and we do about 300kw/hrs/month in eastern TN.  I could live with that pretty much indefinitely if we had to….it will run fridge, a freezer, lights and the washing machine 3-4 times/wk…..enough to keep one living at least 20th century.

40. TnAndy on March 2, 2011 at 7:55 pm

    VRF:
    Never heard anybody ask solar in terms of sqft before, so I did a quick calculation.  Using Solarworld 245w panels, which I’ve got in the basement right now for my NEXT array, they measure about 40×66″….or 18.3sqft.   So 800 sqft would be about 10.7kw in panels.
    System that size ( I assume you’d want battery backup ) will run 8-10bucks/watt, installed……could run a bit more IF you get REALLY good batteries. ( Like Surrette )…..so you’re talking in the neighborhood of 100grand.   By the way, that’s a LOT of system. Most locations, ( unless yours is really crappy ) you’ll find that will generate 800-1000kw/hrs/month…..WAY more than you need for basic refrigeration, some lights and a few amenities.
    I have a 3.15kw system now, and we do about 300kw/hrs/month in eastern TN.  I could live with that pretty much indefinitely if we had to….it will run fridge, a freezer, lights and the washing machine 3-4 times/wk…..enough to keep one living at least 20th century.

41. Anonymous on March 2, 2011 at 8:03 pm

    DK, you are spot on but I am 100:1 & I am heavy, real heavy.  Michelle, the ratio is all important, that is the true question, nice job & read it earlier.  JV, I will try the recipe, you’re beanie weenie on!  Anybody that voted for Oboma is a moron & pudding pop up the six.  10 hail mary’s & apologize to us every day.  He never had a job.
     

42. PO'd patriot on March 2, 2011 at 8:09 pm

    Comments…..Stan it will come like the dusk or the dawn. Look out your window and notice the bushes at dusk. Come back to the window a few moments later and they’ve disappeared in the dark. Thats how it will come.

43. Anonymous on March 2, 2011 at 8:24 pm

    I wish I were an Oscar Mayer Weiner
    That is what I truly wish to be
    cause if i were a oscar mayer weiner
    everyone would be in love with me!

44. VRF on March 2, 2011 at 8:32 pm

    @TnAndy
    Wow, had no idea, thanks for the heads up and education..
    My south side roof on my barn measures out to 800 SF so i figured if i used all of that surface to generate power i could tell the local power company to KMA..I also do welding, and other projects that require a bit of power, so I may have figured on extreme measures.

    Guess i have some math to do, thanks for the help, I guess with my generator and a solar system I could go ff grid for quite a while and not “feel” it too bad.

45. sanityjones on March 2, 2011 at 8:40 pm

    It’s already here. This IS the collapse.
    “No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun”  – Pink Floyd.

46. shoemaker on March 2, 2011 at 8:57 pm

    Chris-  I heard that Celente prediction was Christmas 2012 where we’d be giving food gifts.  His prediction was made in 2009.

    So he gets one more chance 😉

47. Anonymous on March 2, 2011 at 8:57 pm

    Say hello to my little friend.  I say 12:1 is the magic ratio to convert unless China & India collapses and then 20:1 it was to slide in safe.

48. GodSend on March 2, 2011 at 9:18 pm

    The question SHOULD be: “WHO DID IT?”
    ANSWER: The Zionist Slimeballs did it – just like THEY did 911, the USS Liberty attack, the JFK assassination, etc.
    “Are you ready” is the question THEY want you to ask when TSHTF!!! (so that THEY can make a clean get-away with your $$$, gold, food, water, weapons, ammo – in addition to your women and small children).

49. GrayFoxGreen on March 2, 2011 at 9:31 pm

    Great comments from everyone!
    Even IF the “collapse” doesn’t arrive real soon,it’s advisable to “put something by” as the old folks would say.I suspect that we’ll all be seeing natural disasters sooner than a systemic implosion.Both need about the same kinds of G.O.D. bags,long term storage and some type of emergency kits.The Roman Empire(lots of similarities to USA)  took quite a long while to fall apart,yet it finally did in the end.Far away wars causing crushing government debt,debasement of their money and dishonest merchants(check the oz. amounts on regular stuff you buy and see how smaller they have become as the prices remain the same,no creeping inflation there fur sure)ever-enlargement of a few companies(I.E. Comcaster,Citibankerites and of course Goldie-cheatum-you Sakaies).Uber-rich not paying any taxes,public school system falling to pieces for lack of money(of course the the Teacher’s unions FAULT,but when did you last  meet a RICH Teacher?) as schools for the rich get bigger,lack of jobs,the list goes on.It happened to them too.My guess would place what people around here call “collapse” in about a 5 to 15 year time-line.That’s about when there would be no unions,with the REPOCRATS gutting the EPA so that the ground water that we have is almost totally unfit to drink(thanks to the leaking gas lines underground that travel around the country)depleted water tables that can’t support farms,much less cities.Rome itself went from about 1 million to 20,000 people after it lost it’s drinking water supply and had no funds to fix it.Bet the same will happen to New York,L.A. et.al…But have no fear,the o-so-inscrutable Chinese are screwing up their country almost as quickly as us,but on a MUCH larger scale.It’s been interesting so far….just wait till the unemployment checks run out in 12 months and the REPOCRATS refuse to renew them.THAT might be the corker that starts the circus.I’m having pizza while I can still afford it at $25 for a extra-large to feed my family,Sister-in-law,niece and other hangers on.I hope I’m wrong on this rant,but it aint looking like it anytime soon.
    Best to all,
    GFG

50. Dave on March 2, 2011 at 9:45 pm

    Yaawwnn…
    I’ve been hearing that it will be by Christmas for 5 years now.
    It will collapse eventually, but I’m tired of people putting dates on it.

51. Durango Kidd on March 2, 2011 at 9:58 pm

    GFG: No you won’t find many “rich” teachers. Some rich professors, but no rich teachers. My beef with teachers is that they complain about being underpaid at $40-60k a year but only work eight months of the year and usually teach the same grade a few years running.

    They spend the summer traveling, get grants for research projects, etc. Add 1/3 for the free time they have and we’re talking $60-80K. That goes a long long way in some states, and is more than comparable to most private sector jobs. Plus they get major breaks in the work scheduale which isn’t like grinding it out 12 months a year.

    I appreciate the work they do, but I don’t want to hear any whining for a good job and benefits. Its its not enough, let them join the marketplace with the rest of US and they can see what they are really worth.

    Just saying. 🙂

52. Bass Masterson on March 2, 2011 at 9:59 pm

    Comments…..

                                    YOU ARE GONNA DIE!

    Unless you have stocked up on Bass Masterson’s famous fresh water FISH JERKY.

    Small Mouth Jerky 6 0z. packaged to last a lifetime or more  $49.97.
    Large Mouth Jerky 6 Oz. Packaged to last about a lifetime $45.35.
    Rock Bass/Sunfish Jerky 6 Oz. sealed till you open it. $43.50

    THE WORLD WILL END BEFORE MIDNITE TONITE, OPERATORS ARE STANDING BY, CALL OUR CONVENIENT TOLL FREE NUMBER AND IF YOU’RE ONE OF THE FIRST 150 CALLERS WE’LL GIVE YOU 2 POUNDS OF CARP JERKY FOR ONLY $117.92. WHAT THE HEY IT’S ONLY MONEY! SO GET PREPARED AND AS ASUPER DUPER BONUS WITH EVERY ORDER YOU’LL RECEIVE FREE TWO FREEZE DRIED PACKETS OF TARTER SAUCE!

53. BJ on March 2, 2011 at 10:35 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJkurPs9smA&feature=player_embedded#at=84

    I think you’ll get the message………

54. Plane Guy on March 2, 2011 at 11:18 pm

    VRF- I’ve got 3.3 Kw total of panels on my roof (which faces due south, as I built the house that way), and it’s about 700 sq ft. You could definetly pack more than that in, as I have 18″ or so “walkways” in between the panel rows for access and maintenance.

    I started small, one or two panels at a time, and just slowly aquired more over the past couple of years. I would switch over various circuits out of the main breaker box to my “solar” breaker box as the capacity increased (the system is not grid tied per se, but I do have a switched tie-in back to the main grid power when the batteries get low).

    It’s the batteries that add up, cost-wise. Currently have about 4200 amp-hours of batt capacity, at a cost of about $4000. Enough to power the “solar circuits” (about 1/2 of the house’s electrical needs) for about a 1 1/2 days with no sun, once they’re charged.

    Sometimes when the grid power goes down, we don’t even notice until we try to turn on a light somewhere in the house that isn’t on the solar powered system (TV and ‘puter are solar powered, so the kids don’t notice grid failures at all, lol).

    Got about 1200 watts at 48 volts doing nothing but heating water in the “main” 40 gal water heater each day, and the remaining 2100 or so watts runs the 24 volt house system and charges the batt banks.

    Would love to go totally off-grid, but the remainder of my circuits still on the grid are the high-wattage appliances like the stove, dryer, A/C, heaters, etc and I would have to probably TRIPLE what I have now on the roof to even tackle those. I’m happy where it’s at, though, because we can always cook with propane or solar oven, dry clothes outside, use fans for A/C, and so on…

    I’m an aircraft electrician by trade, so this was all relatively easy for me. I didn’t pay anyone to install anything, and bought all of the panels on E-Bay (way below retail), so I paid probably half of what it would have costs to have a company come and do it…And still spent about 10 grand… 

55. shoemaker on March 3, 2011 at 12:23 am

    So Plane Guy,  if it comes easy to you, how would you do it if you were:

    1) full of anxiety about hooking things together because you don’t have a strong foundation for electronics
    2) mildly poor and again, too uncertain to invest much in solar, so maybe $500 for a basic set up
    3) needed something that could be kept separate from the grid (because you still rent and might move)
    4) not expecting to use it for too much right away
    5) would like to be able to add to it later as funding is available

    What would you get?  It’s confusing.  The solar panel, a regulator, a deep charge battery, and an AC inverter?  Is that what you would need?  How do you know what kind or size? 

    Thanks!  (oh yeah, and you live where it is cloudy/rainy 66% of the time)

56. BJ on March 3, 2011 at 12:31 am

    http://thestarnations.wordpress.com/2011/02/25/second-sun-may-appear-at-any-moment/

57. Plane Guy on March 3, 2011 at 3:37 am

    shoemaker- If it’s cloudy/rainy 2/3rds of the time, don’t even put in the effort of going solar. Think about wind generation, if you live in a windy area.

    But if you absolutely want to go solar, here is my .02:
    1) Start small. Buy a 60 watt, 12 volt panel or two (it will actually produce about 17 volts, because a 12 volt battery needs to be top charged at about 14.5 volts). 60 watts is a good compromise between panel size extremes (lugging huge 200 watt panels up to the roof is a PITA) and power output. You should pay no more than $150 for it, or $2.50/watt. Retail prices will be higher than this, of course.
    2) Don’t scrimp on a good controller/charger. You get what you pay for in this department. I love the Xantrex controllers, but there are several good brands out there. Instruction books will come with the controllers and will educate you in its many functions.
    3) If you can hook up a car battery, and know what a basic electrical
    circuit is, you shouldn’t have any problems. We’re just talking about a positive and negative DC circuit here…
    4) I use marine deep cycle batteries from Wal-Mart, which actually has its advantages: they’re much cheaper than the larger units sold specifically for solar systems, and I can exchange them for a brand new one within 12 months if anything goes wrong (and I have had to exchange some). Any deep cycle battery should work, I’ve even heard of people using 6 volt golf cart batteries (wired in series for 12 volts, of course).
    5) The benefits of using 24 or 48 volt systems are smaller wiring and longer wiring runs (from the panels>controllers>batteries). When you double the voltage (by wiring two 12 volt panels in series), you halve the current flow (Ohm’s law), and wiring thickness (and cost) is determined by current in the circuit. When you start adding to your system and buying more panels, you should go with the higher voltages for better efficiencies.
    6) 12 volt inverters are a dime a dozen (so to speak), so you can go cheap here just to start out. Save your money for a good 24 or 48 volt inverter for later on, depending on how you want to upgrade your system. Just make sure the inverter is rated at least 120% over the load you want to put on it (for instance, say you want to run your 150 watt TV off of your solar system, then get at least a 200 watt inverter).

    In summation, with your $500, you could buy a 60 watt panel ($250), a 40 amp controller (will allow you plenty of room for more panels in the future)($120), a deep cycle battery ($85 or so), and maybe squeeze in a cheap 12v inverter…The prices in parenthesis are actual prices I’ve paid for these items on E-Bay and at Wal-Mart…

    Hope that helps and I haven’t lost ya with techno-talk :)  

58. SmokinOkie on March 3, 2011 at 5:05 am

    Plane Guy- I had heard about the golf cart batteries but wasn’t really sure if they’d work. You provided some good introductory info for a solar-newby such as myself. thanks.
    Bass Masterson- I’m trying to order the great deals on fish jerky but your 800 number keeps connecting me to some guy in Nigeria and all he wants is my credit card #. I gave it to him three times and he still hasn’t called back to confirm my jerky order. Does he work for you? I’m sure it’s just a small glitch in the ordering process.
    As far as the timing for any type of collapse, I agree with the others who say it’s best NOT to put a date on it. The point is to be as ready as you can be and still live your life each day. Be as prepared as possible, but until some actual earth shaking event occurs, go share a laugh with a good friend or do some things just for the simple enjoyment of them. It keeps your head from getting cross-threaded on your shoulders.
    And keep prayin’ for this nation and our friends around the world(hey manos!)
    Best to all- Okie

59. Tina on March 3, 2011 at 6:05 am

    Are you ready?….Are You?

    If the Lord came back this morning….Are you ready?

60. VRF on March 3, 2011 at 6:39 am

    Thanks gouys on the solar education..
    I have to loo into if its a viable choice for my location, Its not what i would call the sunniest location, Im up in the mid east, it can get pretty gloomy in the winter months.
    and its not always windy either

61. James Woroble Jr on March 3, 2011 at 7:00 am

    WTSHTF  Steve Dore YouTube video

62. GA Girl on March 3, 2011 at 7:31 am

    @Bass Masterson
    FEMA will be your biggest customer.  Sounds like something they would buy for the next natural disaster.

63. Tina on March 3, 2011 at 7:33 am

    Thanks James….LOVE THAT VIDEO!!!!

    I will hear that in my head all day…Thanks!

64. TEKROANIN on March 3, 2011 at 8:03 am

    amerika is 64 trillion in real debt!!! the pentagon stole 3.6 trilion from you on 9/11… the usa amerika is already bankrupt… she went belly up in 2008 folks… right now she’s surviving on printer press life support and she will die as soon as they print off all the money they can – completly destroying the value of the dollar!

    china and russia are already dumping dollars, have been for a while now… they know the score!

    get out of the dollar into commodities now while its cheap… guns ammo gas gold silver  foods water etc etc

    it’s only a matter of time now… only a matter of time… it’ll happen when it happens… remember CANADIAN TROOPS AND MEXICAN TROOPS ARE NOW LEGALLY ALLOWED TO ENTER THE UNITED STATES AS PEACE KEEPERS… AS OF LAST WEEK!!! SO LEARN TO SAY F. U.!!! IN MEXICAN NOW!!!  Chinga tu madre !!!

    arm up stock up prepare, predator or prey the choice is yours!

65. Anonymous on March 3, 2011 at 10:52 am

    “When you double the voltage (by wiring two 12 volt panels in series), you halve the current flow (Ohm’s law)”
    Uh….no…you might want to recheck the way you worded your statement.
    When you wire two 12v panels in series, you get 24v at the SAME amperage of the panels when they were 12v.  When you wire them in parallel, you remain at 12v and double the amps.
     
    Also I find it amazing you’re paying for PV panels and using it to resistance heat water…that’s GOT to be the first time I ever heard of that.  Seen it on wind systems, where they need a “dump” load to get rid of excess power, but never on a PV system.  Electric water heater for a family of four would take couple hundred kw/hrs/month alone…..1/3-1/2 of your output a lot of months.
    Why wouldn’t you have used solar water heating panels and that type system that is SO much cheaper and more efficient ?
    Also, I’d be careful about telling folks “any ole inverter” will do.  If they don’t know any more about electrical wiring that hooking up a car battery, they’ll be using any ole inverter and have it tied into the grid….just like the knuckleheads that plug a generator cord into their dryer outlet to power the house instead of using a proper transfer switch arrangement.  ( which I gather you have )
    Grid tie inverters are higher dollar for several reasons…. one being they have to meet UL 1741 standards to stop back feeding the grid when grid power is down, for safety of power company personnel.  You feed 120v back up the line in a power outage, and the transformer on your pole steps it UP to 2300v ( or whatever you local primary side voltage is ) and sends it on back down the line….unbeknown to the power crew working to restore power.
    I’m an electrician by trade, among other hats, and setting up my first PV system was almost nothing like any type of wiring I’d ever done before.  In fact, even I had mistakes in MY system I didn’t pick up on until I went and took a course for NABCEP certification ( solar installer ).
    Don’t get me wrong…I’m all FOR the do-it-yourselfer, being one myself…but I’ve also fixed enough home owner electrical nightmares over the years to know there are a lot of people that ought to take a bit more time to learn what the heck they are doing BEFORE doing-it-themselves.  This is one area where stupid REALLY DOES hurt.

66. TnAndy on March 3, 2011 at 10:54 am

    “When you double the voltage (by wiring two 12 volt panels in series), you halve the current flow (Ohm’s law)”
    Uh….no…you might want to recheck the way you worded your statement.
    When you wire two 12v panels in series, you get 24v at the SAME amperage of the panels when they were 12v.  When you wire them in parallel, you remain at 12v and double the amps.
     
    Also I find it amazing you’re paying for PV panels and using it to resistance heat water…that’s GOT to be the first time I ever heard of that.  Seen it on wind systems, where they need a “dump” load to get rid of excess power, but never on a PV system.  Electric water heater for a family of four would take couple hundred kw/hrs/month alone…..1/3-1/2 of your output a lot of months.
    Why wouldn’t you have used solar water heating panels and that type system that is SO much cheaper and more efficient ?
    Also, I’d be careful about telling folks “any ole inverter” will do.  If they don’t know any more about electrical wiring that hooking up a car battery, they’ll be using any ole inverter and have it tied into the grid….just like the knuckleheads that plug a generator cord into their dryer outlet to power the house instead of using a proper transfer switch arrangement.  ( which I gather you have )
    Grid tie inverters are higher dollar for several reasons…. one being they have to meet UL 1741 standards to stop back feeding the grid when grid power is down, for safety of power company personnel.  You feed 120v back up the line in a power outage, and the transformer on your pole steps it UP to 2300v ( or whatever you local primary side voltage is ) and sends it on back down the line….unbeknown to the power crew working to restore power.
    I’m an electrician by trade, among other hats, and setting up my first PV system was almost nothing like any type of wiring I’d ever done before.  In fact, even I had mistakes in MY system I didn’t pick up on until I went and took a course for NABCEP certification ( solar installer ).
    Don’t get me wrong…I’m all FOR the do-it-yourselfer, being one myself…but I’ve also fixed enough home owner electrical nightmares over the years to know there are a lot of people that ought to take a bit more time to learn what the heck they are doing BEFORE doing-it-themselves.  This is one area where stupid REALLY DOES hurt.

67. VRF on March 3, 2011 at 11:35 am

    Any lineman worth his salt will check a line for back feed , especially after a line down or storm senario, before he reconnects or re-fuses a line or feed. It should be 1st proceedure. they do teach them safety , i would think this would be prudent

    But..It is good practice and the right thing to do , (disconnect your equipment or feed from the incoming lines) ie..throw the main or have a system that does it for you when the incoming power goes down.

    As for solar water heat, I made a great way to heat my pool with a black tarp, pvc tube and an electric pump. works sweet. all in a 2×4 boxed frame work .

68. Chris C. on March 3, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    My two cents on solar installs (I installed a small home off-grid system 3 years ago):
     
    Gold cart batteries work fine. As a matter of fact I plan on purchasing these for my next set. Much cheaper than something like the Optima blue top deep-cycle marine batteries I bought back then – about 70% cheaper. Also only got 2 1/2 years out of those Optimas, so I’m a little disappointed.
     
    Battery life will also greatly depend on the temperature of your install site and how deep/often you cycle your batteries. As a general rule of thumb, try not to deplete them more than 50% charge often, maybe once a week at most. This of course varies with the manufacturer. The more you deep cycle beyond 50%, the lower the life expectancy.
     
    Look for a good MMPT charger (maximum power point tracking) solar charger. Like someone said earlier you don’t want to skimp on this component. The MMPT types will charge at the higher voltages the panels are putting out (around 17V), so you’re not “throwing away” the excess power by charging at 12-14V which is what your batteries want to see.
     
    Make sure you derate all the wires in your install to handle 125% of the maximum short-circuit current flows (if you happened to short circuit the positive and negative leads from the panels), which is essentially no load. I believe there may be some state/local requirements for further derating based on temperature (panels are most efficient at cold temperatures). Be sure to include breakers on all positive leads in your setup, again at least 125% above maximum expected current. Size the wires appropriately beyond that so the breaker will protect against your wires burning out, should something go wrong.
     
    Make sure your grounds are tight and tied to a common earth ground at some point. I had a little trouble at first with my inverter because there’s a chassis ground connection on the back of it, and whenever I tried connecting to the ground in my setup it would immediately turn off. I traced this back to the fact that my inverter feeds a transfer switch which is tied into the main breaker panel, and at the main panel the neutral and grounds are basically tied together. So what I was doing (unknowingly) was creating a ground loop between the inverter and the main breaker, and part of the inverter’s reverse current protection is to turn off it it detects this, which it did. To make a long story short ask for advice for grounding as it can be tricky.

69. European American on March 3, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    And if you want to bring your energy with you if you plan to “Bug Out”, something I built up.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/54175126@N06/5475336411/lightbox/
     
    20 trojan 6V batteries
    2400 watts of panels
    Magnum MS4024 Inverter
    Outback Charge Controller

70. Chris C. on March 3, 2011 at 1:40 pm

    European American,
     
    That’s awesome. Shade from the sun in addition to free power!
     
    I also had the idea that one day I would build a rain collection system using solar panels, so when it rained the large surface area of the panels would drain into a gutter/downspout and then into several rain barrels, and then pumped out using a 12VDV pump. Useful for watering your garden!!

71. GodSend on March 3, 2011 at 1:51 pm

    THIS is the link y’all should be reading:
    http://thestarnations.wordpress.com/2011/02/07/william-pawelec-interview/

72. Mardochee Augustin on March 3, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    The idea of Chinese,Mexican,or Canadian troops in US soil in a collapse scenario is laughable at best. First of there is 80 million gun owners plus 20 million illegal gun owners. So the myth of foreign troops coming to the US in a dollar collapse is unlikely to happen. Now those who predict a dollar collapse by years end are wrong. As large as our debt is interest rates are very low. We will face a fiscal crisis by the end of this decade. By 2020 entitlement spending will out pace defense spending.   Interest expenses will equal the entire Defense Department budget by 2020. In 2020, the Treasury will have to borrow $5 trillion a year to roll over the debt. Don’t forget the Treasury’s obligation to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The debt of government-sponsored enterprises is already $8 trillion. The post-2020 fiscal outlook is downright apocalyptic, for two reasons. First, the aging of the U.S. population will drive sharp increases in health care costs (and at the same time, more Americans will be retired). Second, federal interest expense will rise exponentially, as the Treasury’s borrowing costs grow with the debt.

    What is the threat? The Austrian School’s famous – and always previously denied – crowding-out effect.

    Why is this scenario so dangerous? One reason is that a large amount of federal borrowing would eat up the stock of private capital that is available to finance investment. A higher and higher percentage of personal savings would be diverted to purchasing government debt and away from productivity-enhancing investments in equipment and technology. This would shrink the base of productive capital and flatten gdp and family incomes. As more and more debt piled up, growth would slow and Americans’ standard of living would fall. So this second half of this decade we will be facing a very serious fiscal crisis in the 2020s.

73. GMAFB on March 3, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    It’s groundhog day…same shit, new day.
    GMAFB – nope, nada, none…

74. Chris C. on March 3, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    Hey everyone – relax. The MSM says gas is going to $2 gallon. $3.50 is just not that sustainable.
     
    I wish I were making this crap up.
     
    http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/03/news/economy/gas_prices_fall/index.htm

75. Spongy Bob on March 3, 2011 at 5:11 pm

    Chris,  I am so glad to hear the gas prices are coming down!!!!
     
    I don’t think those who think they are in control are really in control.  They may have caused all of the problems with incompetence, unable to understand the point where they lost control and in denial that control has been lost.
    By controlling the dollar, they already had control over the world economy.  If it could be bought, they could just print up the money to do it.  Would they really sacrifice the power and control they have built up purposely?
     
    I just don’t buy it.  The powers that be will soon be the powers that were.  And not because their evil plan failed, but because of their own incompetence in managing the “American Dream” of the secret societies of which they are a part.
     
     
     
     

76. Anonymous on March 3, 2011 at 5:14 pm

    I seen that also Chris.  What a pipe dream for cnn.

77. dr. who on March 3, 2011 at 5:26 pm

    Comments…..cogent: www “West borrows to
    pay interest cant pay principal unless
    sci. finds cheap fuels. US owes us$
    195t 12 zero trillion Kot. says

78. BJ on March 3, 2011 at 7:27 pm

    EA,
    The on pic of the man, dog and trailer reminded me of Mertoff’s trailer in the first Lethal Weapon

79. Jonny V on March 3, 2011 at 7:33 pm

    The trailer’s only as good as the beenie-weenie inside of it!

80. European American on March 3, 2011 at 8:13 pm

    It was the first solar mobile system I set up. A ’63 Airstream that I fixed up inside and did some traveling in. It was fun and quite an adventure. Nice to have “power” in the middle of no where. Took those panels off and mounted them on the side of the cargo trailer. Sold the Airstream, Bike and Land Rover. Still have the dogs, though. Didn’t see Lethal Weapons series although I like Mel. Did you hear that a “new” Mad Max is close, next February, to going into production. I don’t think Mel will be Max in this one. Dang.

81. Time2change on March 3, 2011 at 10:21 pm

    This SHTF Plan website has a great deal of credibility with the Preparedness Community.  Why would you mar such credibility with a story featuring a fictitional story about the USA granting Eminent Domain to China?  This is complete fantasy.  Check snopes.com for an explanation.  Do additional research as to the origin of this story.  It’s false.  If it were true, it would be the single biggest news story in history if it happened.  You’ve been duped.

82. BJ on March 3, 2011 at 11:15 pm

    I don’t think  they will have to make up a ‘set’ for the movie….they’ll be able to go anywhere and just film adn that will be the movie….it will be true reality movie

83. Plane Guy on March 3, 2011 at 11:18 pm

    TriAndy- My bad, good catch…I should have said when you double the voltage in a “circuit”, you halve the current. Using seried solar panels as an example of a simple circuit bit me on that one…

    And as far as using panels to heat water, I DID have a solar heated piping system rigged up that provided about 140 degree water input on sunny days to the main water heater. It all worked great- in the summer. In the winter when the sun’s angle is lower, not so good. After the pipes froze when it hit 17 degrees last year, I ripped the system out and decided to use the solar panels.

    The info I didn’t give you (that you could have inferred from the “48 volt system” alluded to earlier) is that I have 12 Kaneka thin film high voltage (60+ volts under a load) panels that don’t jive with the 24 volt house system. And I got them at a heck of a bargain. There’s no problem using solar panels to heat water when the voltages are THAT high. I’ve seen ’em hit 65+ volts when the cloud edge effect kicks in.

    The panels are already paid for, and the hot water is free- what’s the problem? Thing is, everybody that does thier own solar installations has thier own unique way of doing things. I’m happy with mine, my electric bills have halved, and I have free hot water every day the sun’s shining at least 4 hours a day (which, in S Texas, is damn near every day)…

    Electric water heating is 20-30% of the average family’s bill, and most solar systems have no where near the capacity to tackle a 40 gallon water heater, yet I’ve managed to it. Why does that seem so “abnormal” to you????

84. Dr. Tom on March 4, 2011 at 12:53 am

    @European American:  I like that.  I actually have something similar.  People in areas with a lot of sun can use rolls of black PVC pipe, either in the yard, or in the attic to heat water.  If you put it in the attic, you can also plumb a gravity fire-sprinkler system but check the load rating of the attic and make sure you can mix the output or the water will be too hot.  Water weighs 8 pounds per gallon and it’s pretty easy to get a couple thousand gallons in the attic just before the roof falls in.
    @Godsend:  Sir, if the ‘Zionist slimeballs’ you refer to were going to steal all the money, they have already done it.  Their motive would have been what: to insure that the entire middle-east area will become embroiled in a nuclear war?  To me that’s not really the best plan available.  I would have taken that money and bought the entire American continent rather to bankrupt your greatest protector with the sure knowledge that the wolf is at your door and that we will no longer be able to intervene to help you militarily.

85. Dr.Tom on March 4, 2011 at 12:58 am

    “Are you ready?….Are You? If the Lord came back this morning….Are you ready?”
    -Tina
    Madame. The only time God has EVER showed up it has been to kill people.  Revelations tells you that the next time will be no different.  By ‘Ready’ I presume you mean armed and prepared to help make the rivers run red with blood.  Because Jesus isn’t Johnny Appleseed.  He’s coming with a sword in his mouth to kill everyone.  Including you.

86. Tina on March 4, 2011 at 6:17 am

    Dear Dr Tom…..I mean READY, READY for anything. Everyone here always talks about prepping for a disaster…..very few I have heard (but there are some) seem to have prepped their faith.

    I have faith that Jesus will send for his people (people of faith), he will come back (as he stated)…….I know it to be true down to my very soul. If I die before he comes back then so be it, but I will enter the gates of Heaven neverless.

    Prepping in the physical is only half the game.

    Watched the Prophets of Doom……WOW. Did anyone see it. Last night History Channel at 8:00…..WOW. Great to see everyone together on this 

87. TnAndy on March 4, 2011 at 7:07 am

    PlainGuy:
    It’s abnormal in that most folks don’t find bargain panels….hey, if you did, and it works, good for you.
    Cost is the reason most go with water heating panels over PV for heating water.  If your froze and broke, you must not have had a system in which anti-freeze was circulated.  All the ones around here do, using a heat exchanger in the tank so the fluids don’t intermix.
    As to sun angle, it would seem if that affects the water heating panels, it would also affect your PV panel production as well, unless you have them on adjustable racking.
    My own panels are set up for 70v….pairs of 35v panels in series.  With an MPPT controller, like the Outback FM60, you can input up to 150v, and set the out put for whatever voltage you want ( 12,24,36,48,60 ), with the extra power being converted to amperage.  So for me to “infer” anything from your 48v on water heating would be hard to do, since there are ALL kinds of ways to set up systems.
    You’ve been able to use bargains off Fleabay to set up your system, but the fact is, if even a few dozen folks hit that market at the same time, it would be depleted. Add to that, lot of the folks on that market don’t know WHAT they are selling, and a lot of the people that buy stuff off it don’t know what they are buying, (I’d bet even with your knowledge, you’ve bought a “surprise” or two ), and you have a potential for a mess…..especially if the person trying to assemble a system is an electrical novice.
    That means most of the rest of us are going to have to use components bought new, at retail, to set up systems.  Even doing that, there are enough obstacles to overcome, without adding in the “surprise—this-ain’t-what-you-thought-you-were-getting” factor….ahahaaaa

88. Tom on March 4, 2011 at 10:01 am

    Is this the day we bust below 40:1 on silver/gold ratio?  Hold your beliefs Tina.

89. GodSend on March 4, 2011 at 10:47 am

    Dr. Tom
    “I would have taken that money and bought the entire American continent.”
    
    WAIT!

90. BJ on March 4, 2011 at 11:50 am

    Time2Change……
    George hw Bush signed an EO giving power to sell Americas infrastructure to other countries

91. Tina on March 4, 2011 at 11:53 am

    Tom….Is this the day we bust below 40:1 on silver/gold ratio?  Hold your beliefs Tina.

    I do hold them….I hold them near & dear.

92. Rick Halsen on March 4, 2011 at 12:14 pm

    Comments…..

    Durango Kid sed……………….

    “There’s a lot of new silver mines in the works too, so we could be looking at a glut of silver in a few of years.
    Got gold?”

    Somewhat true except you’re missing the white elephant in the room.   That is, mining costs are directly related to fuel costs and as you can see it is highly unlikely in the foreseeable future that the price of crude is going to go down in the face of depleting reserves much less money printing and on top of geopolitical unrest of which there is no end in sight.    Food costs alone in concert with crude prices are ensuring this geopolitical unrest outcome.

    That said, the value of silver vs other currencies including gold is destined IMO to escalate as crude is currently for the most part now only temporarily converted via dollars until such time as a new global reserve model is established.  The current oil for dollar exchange mechanism is coming to an end as even the Saudis understand now that putting all their eggs in one dollar basket is folly.

    Silver is not going to collapse in value.   If anything, the opposite.

    RH

93. Billybob on March 4, 2011 at 3:26 pm

    Come on folks…
    This Gloom and doom stuff has been thrown around since my mon was in her 20’s, she is now 68.
    She say’s if she would have listened to all the BS in the 60’s & 70’s she would have missed out on a pretty nice life living in fear of tomorrow.
    Of course no one knows what the future will bring, but for all of you too be so hyperfocused on all this negetive future collapse stuffmakes me so sad for you.

    GO LIVE YOUR LIFE!!!!! things will sort themselves out, always have always will..

    God Bless all of you, find faith and trust in the lord, he will provide….

    Then move on and find pleasure today!!!

94. GrayFoxGreen on March 4, 2011 at 8:45 pm

    If I were to put all my eggs into the” Jesus is a comin'”basket I would have to sell everything I own,live in a tent and rant at all the “unlike me,you’all godless are gonna die real soon”people every day.Judgment Day will arrive,but at God’s due time(not EVEN JESUS knows the day or hour,put that one into your hat!).The Bible has many examples of His forbearance and mercy toward just plain folks(see account of Jonah and Assyrians).The Idea is to “keep on the watch” and do the next right thing to your fellow man and try to live by the “Golden Rule”(I sometimes wonder how “GOD fearing” the REPOCRATS actually are?).The ever increasing “difficult times hard to deal with” may presage J.D. or subside somewhat.It does say that “the love of the greater number of people will cool off”.Only after the fact will we know for sure if we lived in the last days.Or just the slow-motion free fall of another failed “empire” of man’s rule by imperfect man….Just another thought and I’ll quit.The Bible mentions that “they’ll be throwing their Silver and Gold into the street”.With the new flood of fake Silver and gold coins coming into the market(mainly from our loving friends the Chinese) I wonder what’s next???
    Just a few personal notes and observations…..
    Take care and preparedness  to all,
    GFG

95. shoemaker on March 4, 2011 at 9:35 pm

    Thanks for the solar panel guidance.  That gives me quite a bit to chew on.

96. Durango Kidd on March 4, 2011 at 11:07 pm

    Rick Halsen: I wasn’t trying to suggest that silver will collapse, and I didn’t say that. What I am saying, and what I thought I suggested was that those who believe silver will skyrocket may well be disappointed.

    As the economy improves, copper demand increases. Copper mines generally produce lots of silver and some gold. Some years ago when I was reviewing the financial statements for Phelps Dodge I noticed that their billions of pounds of copper that they produced only managed to meet their expenses.

    It was the silver and gold that provided the profit. As I remember it was $50 million in gold at those low prevailing rates. In addition to the silver mines coming online, there have been MASSIVE new deposits of silver recently discovered in the Sierra Madre.

    Buy gold if you can. If you only have 2k to spend, buy one oz of gold and put the rest in silver. Speculate with silver, but know it will be coming down eventually as supplies will outstrip demand.

    Gold is a different ball game and the END GAME for the central banksters.

97. Anonymous on March 4, 2011 at 11:27 pm

    BJ Said:  George hw Bush signed an EO giving power to sell Americas infrastructure to other countries.

    BJ:  I don’t mean to be argumentative, but your comment above is exactly the same diverting tactic used by the Libs. 

    First, your comment has absolutely nothing to do with my calling out the false information shown on this site, regarding the Obama Administration allowing the Chinese the ability to declare Eminent Domain on US Property.  That information is 100% false.  End of story. 

    In 1992, George H.W. Bush signed Executive Order 12803, which gave D.C. the authority to sell America’s infrastructure. They called this authority “Infrastructure Privatization.”  E.O. 12803 tells us this power cleared the way for the “disposition or transfer of an infrastructure “asset” such as by sale or by long-term lease from a State or local government to a private party.   

    While this is a horrid act, and I frequently wonder what has already been sold, or what will eventually be sold,  it does not change the fact that the information posted about the Chinese was false.  

    I really have come to love this site.  I just hate to see it marginalized by false information.   

98. Durango Kidd on March 4, 2011 at 11:47 pm

    Rick: I understand your reasoning about the cost of fuel for production of these metals, but we have seen spikes in the cost of oil and gasoline over and over again. It always peaks and then levels off to a sustainable rate.

    Mining is a global endeavor with global market prices. Copper production might shut down in the USA but would increase in other parts of the world where the price of labor is so much cheaper it can offset the price of fuel.

    For example. It doesn’t matter what the cost of fuel is for Chinese gold mines because world prices are above $1400 but the cost to mine an oz of gold is only about $50 in China. Is production of gold going to shut down in China if the price of oil reaches $150 per barrel? Don’t think so.

    Whether that model holds for copper production in Peru, or Africa; or for silver in Mexico I don’t know, haven’t looked at it. But the reality is that gold producing countries like China and Russia are buying ALL of their own production and it is the Chinese Government Goal goal to own 10,000 TONS of gold.

    Why? It won’t just be for investment it will be the basis for the new One World Currency coming to US as soon as the gangster banksters can get away with foisting it upon US.

    Buy some gold and hold on to it. Speculate with silver.

99. Denis on March 5, 2011 at 6:08 pm

    “This Video is not available in your country”
    Are u kidding me? from germany
     

100. Clem on March 6, 2011 at 5:54 am

     It’s risky using time lines. Although the water is getting warmer and complex systems tend to spin out of control quickly, This is no time to get freaked out. Steady as she goes matey! Prep, Prep, Prep.

101. BJ on March 6, 2011 at 6:22 pm

     Anon……
     I didn’t use any tactic other than state a fact. If I diverted anything it was not on purpose for that was not my intent…again intent was to state a fact. And I am no lib!!! My eyes have been opened to the truth and I am no longer a blind naive “christian conservative republican that believes in our govt and thinks the military is protecting our freedoms” either.
     You saying  that “___” isn’t true about bo’s admin or anything for that matter doesn’t make it so cause you said it is 100% false…I don’t care if you say it is end of story or not.
     You took my stating a fact and ran with it trying to tie me down to some motive, which is something that I can say is 100% false.
      
     So next time you come out with anything directed at me and saying that your not trying to be argumentative….don’t be!!
      
     And if you believe hook line and sinker anything on a liberally owned site like snopes.com or factcheck, what makes you think they are the end all know all??………well nothing more to say on that one  😉

102. Anonymous on March 6, 2011 at 11:30 pm

     You are spot on plus spread DK.

103. Anonymous on March 7, 2011 at 8:17 am

     39:1 ratio for silver this morning.  Wow! 

104. Incriminally Sane on March 7, 2011 at 11:51 am

     If the US economy lasts until christmas, I will be amazed! With the turmoil going on in the middle east and Africa, the economic strain around the globe and the greed displayed by the globalists and the bankers, the likelihood of the economy lasting until christmas is highly unlikely.
     When this does happen, you would be a fool to stay in your home and be rounded up like sheep and sent to the slaughter house (internment camps). The best thing is to have a remote location picked out where you have food storage for at least a year per person stashed away and stay there until the trouble blows over.
     Have fun!
      

105. Anonymous on March 7, 2011 at 12:06 pm

     The more I learn about gold/silver, the more I realize that there is more to learn than what I know.

106. BJ on March 7, 2011 at 9:32 pm

     A few things I still don’t understand in regards to silver. You guys have been so informative and educational so far I thought I’d continue to ask here……can someone explain the ratio thing to me? I think I have somewhat of an understanding on it, but would like to hear from one of you to make sure.
     Also I am a little confused between these three terms  spot, bid and ask.thanks so much folks for all the help you have been to me

107. Steve on March 14, 2011 at 10:27 am

     Comments…..I do like the idea of stockpiling food, and doing more gardening. I was just surprised by the fellow talking about the barrels, specifically the price you paid for grain! 50 lb bags for 30 dollars?
     I buy grain from a nearby farmer for my chickens, but also as a hedge against disaster.
     Cracked corn, hard red winter wheat, and oats, I pay 14 cents a pound. Just brought half a ton for 143 dollars