After years of government mandates, corruption, and massive losses in the auto industry, there should be no question as to why Detroit, Michigan is losing thousands of residents each year. The latest census count suggests that Detroit has fallen back some one hundred years in terms of population count.
This does not bode well for Mayor Dave Bing, who is seeking a recount:
The flight of middle-class African-Americans to the suburbs fueled an exodus that cut Detroit’s population 25% in the past decade to 713,777, according to Census Bureau data released Tuesday. That’s the city’s lowest population level since the 1910 census, when automobile mass production was making Detroit Detroit.
The decline, the fastest in city history, shocked local officials, who had expected a number closer to 800,000. Mayor Dave Bing said the city would seek a recount.
“If we could go out and identify another 40,000 people that were missed, and it brings us over the threshold of 750,000, that would make a difference from what we can get from the federal and state government.”
Source: The Wall Street Journal
SmokinOkie, a regular SHTFplan contributor, opines on the matter:
If the mayor’s first reaction to losing a qtr mil people is to measure that in lost goodies from the gubment- maybe it’s the ENTIRE MINDSET of the people who live there, including the idiots they elect to city offices. When your whole damned world-view is predicated on what you get from the government, it’s no wonder you’re a declining craphole of a city.
Detroit is so far gone that no amount of federal money will help at this point. A culture of corruption, excessive spending, mismanagement and dependency will inevitably lead to bankruptcy and migration of skilled labor. Will more federal money bring back the union contracted auto industry? Will it improve the schools, which have completely fallen apart over the last two decades and are now to the point where there will be 60 students per class due to budget problems? Will federal government giveaways send the right message to the Detroit city council and policymakers?
Detroit is not alone. The same mentality that has destroyed the wealth of this once vibrant and industrial powerhouse will lead to the bankruptcy of many more in months and years to come; and it will not be isolated to just cities, but entire states. Eventually, the federal government, operating under the same auspices of progressive socialism, will be left decimated.
While in 2008 millions of Americans voted to empower the ideologues who would further expand government sponsored health care, retirement and labor, history will show that it is these very policies that brought down a nation once looked to by the rest of the world as the beacon of freedom and innovation.
Cyclical forecaster Martin Armstrong, in his essay The Collapse of Capitalism or is it Socialism?, discusses this very trend and suggests, contrary to popular progressive opinion, that it is not capitalism, free markets and liberty that are collapsing, but rather, Marxist socialism and communism:
It may seem strange, but we have been undergoing a battle of economic philosophy that transcends so many concepts, that unless we step back, most have difficulty understanding the trend. This battle has often been laced with efforts to control mankind. For within this battle, we will find religion, politics, scientific innovation and progress spanning technology in all areas, but also issues that include both slavery and labor that all create what has become known as our economy.
Sometimes we are too close to a problem that it is just impossible to see. When man landed on the moon and sent the first pictures of Earth rising, only then could we see what our world truly looked like. We are facing the very same problem. The change that we now see and are debating, is still from the view of a fly on an elephant’s back. We do not know we are even on an elephant or what is an elephant.
Our society is still growing and changing. We are going through puberty where the youth rebels against the parent. The profound change, the Great Economic Transformation, became bluntly visible back in 1989 where the world economy began to change with the fall of Communism. That fundamental change was truly an Economic Transformation wave which is now causing the collapse of socialism in the Western nations. What we are facing is confusing. Nevertheless, if we want to see the elephant, it is time to take flight.
Without getting into the obvious issues of individual liberty, the ideologies of communism and socialism can be boiled down to economics. And the fact of the matter is, the mathematics simply don’t work. The numbers don’t add up, no matter how hard those in power try to cover them up and manipulate them. The Soviet Union and the East Block are clear examples of the end result.
The good news is that socialism is a failed experiment. Marx was wrong. The entire system is unsustainable and must collapse.
The bad news is, that there is no easy way out. The period of transformation as socialism collapses and a new paradigm emerges will be difficult and mired in poverty, destitution, violence and war.
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Comments…..Yup! sounds right to me.
Yay!, 1st!
What we are experiencing in the US is the result of telling people that they can have somethin’ for nuthin’ and it won’t be pretty.
Look for our cities to resemble Brazil in the near future.
What really killed Detroit was the “migration” Of union jobs to third world countries like(pick one)Mexico,China,Brazil and their Ilk for a tenth of the salary
(or smaller!)no health benefits,no retirement,etc….
GREAT for Corporate America,less so for the rest of us.
Have a nice Day!
LTR,
GFG
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Dave,
You mean to say  “telling people that they can’t have somethin’ for nuthin’ ?
Comments…..Didnt a mayor of detriot in the 1980’s (who was black) say “if you are white leave” ? The mayor of L.A. Cal.(an illegal alien) recentley said the same thing!(there are videos of them both saying that) Those racist mayors and “their” city’s deserve all the poverty,crime, and bankruptcy that they have made for themselves
Comments…..the city of detroit can put my last comment in their crack pipe and smoke it
fromdetroit, its much more than socialism that killed this place, that being said, Â they will just rename it (marxism) and rebrand it and the victim class leaches will eat from their hands again.
This reminds me of a nutter-butter cookie. Can I get your autograph Okie.Â
Socialism – running out of other people’s money
Failed experiment, but the lab rats that were raised on it know nothing else.
You can’t take them and release them into the “wild” (free market capitalism) and not expect a lot of casualties…and who’s fault is it? Doesn’t matter – hard medicine either way.
Yes, it can and will get very ugly as our economy begins to crater by the end of June, owing to the cuts States will be forced to make to balance their budgets. With the US having played the role of world’s super cop since the end of WWII and continuing to this day. My concern is in a worst case scenario, who will keep the world’s government’s in check? After the initial population reduction, and the golden hordes have overrun the country side, what will rise to take it’s place in the form of local, national, and international governance. There are two paths one take, toward individual freedom, or totalitarian government. We’re seeing the result of over reaching government, let’s not allow the mistake of over reaching becoming all reaching.
DEAR, NWO Debt Slaves, QUESTION FOR YOU???
ARE YOU AN AMERICAN TAX PAYER, YES!!! YOU AREÂ a NWO DEBT SLAVE!!! AS AN AMERICAN TAX PAYER DO YOU REALIZE YOU ARE FINANCIALLY SUPPORTING GAY PROSTITUTION???
“”FOR SHAME ON YOU NWO ORDER DEBT SLAVE!!!””
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WHERE’S YOUR MORALS , GAWD DOES NOT LIKE HOMO PROSTITUTION! ALL YOU NWO DEBT SLAVES ARE GOING TO HELL!!!
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Why??? Cause your taxes pay “”Barack I Take it in the Bum Obuma”” aka “barry sotoro”, your illegal alien illegal El President’s Obuma “”BUM BOY”” Reggie Love’s”” …aka Obuma’s gay personal trainer/ sex slave – Salary at the america brothel known as the “”White House!””
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So while your out on the street starving, homeless, penniless , about to loose your home by an illegal default on your mortgage! Thinking about suicide or robbing the local food mart, just to eat!
Â
BARACK OBUMA IS living large “”BENT OVER THE OVAL OFFICE DESK, IN THE OVAL OFFICE OF THE WHITE HOUSE!””
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SCREAMING – “”PLEASE REGGIE MY LOVE! MAY I HAVE ANOTHER!”” grunt ggrunt squeel… lol ;0)
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*personally – I prefer my taxes payin for and the picture image of “”Bill I’m a murdering Druggy Whore Clinton””, getting a BJ from Monica I’m a fat BIG MOUTH piggy Lewinski than the previous image of our gay ilLegal prez OBUMA and his real bum boy desecrating the Oval Office Desk, where Marilyn Monroe did her best work for JFK , Robert Kennedy and America!!!
Keep payin your taxes NWO Debt Slaves! Reggie Love needs a raise!!! lol ;0)
“GAWD Bless Thee Reggie Love!” For all you do for Gawd and Country! Now smack that ILLEGAL ALIEN PRESIDENTIAL ASS! ;0) LMAO
your all suckers… livin’ a lie!
Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Sheeple!
ARM UP STOCK UP PREPARE… PREDITOR OR PREY, THE CHOICE IS YOURS!!!
and remember… “Don’t shoot Till You See the Blue of their U.N. Helmets!!!”
AND to all you Boy’s in uniform REMEMBER…
Obuma YOUR Illegal Commander and Chief ; just loves you boy’s all sweaty in uniform… NOW STAND your lil’ Soldiers at ATTENTION for his Inspection – Atten’ HUT! lol ;0P
America is soooo Fk’d!
-TRUTH!
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Socialism is dead? Marx was wrong?  Hmmmm.
When I look around me here in the good old USA, socialism looks like it is more alive than ever before. We have a socialist Leader in Barack Hussein Obama. We pay people not to work and feed them.Â
We are the greatest example of a socialist country on earth.Â
My opinion is that all economic or political systems have failed.
What may save us in the days to come, is the compasion, charity, barter of goods or services, and self production and self cosnuming.
We must return to the land, and start producing goods again.
We must leave behing the global economic model, since it has been proven that it’s a total crap.
My opinion of course.
Manos.
Food to North Korea. Socialism at its worst.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/03/25/state-department-pushes-resume-food-aid-n-korea/?test=latestnews
Manos, I know you are in Greece, but have you ever been to Detroit? I wonder if you have anything comparable in your country….  but I doubt it. Detroit is the dirtiest, scariest, rottenest big city I ever saw. It has one redeeming feature, though. If you want to kill yourself, just find a nice burnt out, minority infested street, get out of your car and yell the N word. Within seconds you will be shot full of holes and left in the gutter. USA! USA! USA!
emptyhandkiller,
I haven’t been to Detroit but understand what you’re saying, A good friend of mine who lives in Tenessee told me once about Detroit.
We don’t have anything compare to it at least in Crete. Athens though is starting to feel the heat. They have a similar problem with Pakistanis and Afghans.
I hope i didn’t offend or insult any beliefs. I don’t know if cities like Detroit have the potential to return to the old days. Maybe there is much to be done. If people had jobs and self-respect then everything would be a lot easier.
This globalization was the worst that could happen. And i may sound boring, but i will mention once again that America’s death came with outsourcing.
Speaking for Greece though, all models collapsed. The current socialist gorvernment, proved to be a fascist monarchy of an old feudal type. Capitalism is not working, since the state inteferes everywhere, and the communist party is doing everything to tackle all development attempts.
I believe that we will have more to come in the neat future.
Be safe and thanks for your response.
Â
Manos
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Detroit is NOT about the “death-throes of socialism”. It’s about the death-throes of nation-centric capitalism and the emergence of High Globalization. I agree that much of this is due to labor issues, but the issue is not organized labor! Labor was mostly killed off by 1980. Labor ARBITRAGE is the factor…the ability to source labor in any location in the world. And as with any type of arbitrage, the ACT of arbitrage eventually leads to a new equilibrium state. Meaning that US wages will go down and Chinese wages will go up. Blaming all this on organized labor is simply a way of cheaply asserting your own political position on a more complex phenomenon.
I agree with the author, Mac and disagree with Dboy, “Detroit and the Death throes of Socialism and it is the emergence of Socialist Globalization.Â
Because Capitalism could not survive “after years of government mandates, corruption, and massive losses in the auto industry…†aka Socialsm .Â
Most foreign companies ( like Japan, European, China) open big businesses in states that do not allow Union or limits Union’s power and its activity; including the power to negotiate or change.Â
That’s how these large companies are able to survive and make profits in American market.Â
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Union is a strong arm and a powerful tool of the globalists; it takes down large and successful companies that support politicians that they do not approve.
 I lived in Detroit back about 20 years ago for about 8 years..All im going to say is, Im glad im out of there, and it is what it is, because of who’s running the show. and how far back that goes.
The corruption just now brought to light, is just a chip of the ice burg..so much over the years of cover ups , unsolved murders…etc you name it.
As far as TSHTF..its already happining there.
so many individual counties in michigan are going belly up, Michigan is hit hard, and has a huge group of system sukers living within that City
Dboy said:
– Labor was mostly killed off by 1980.Â
TRUE, because Ragean was determined to take control over the Unions, he said he would fire protesting labors if they didn’t go back to work.
– Labor ARBITRAGE is the factor…the ability to source labor in any location in the world.
FALSE: Unions don’t have any power over foreign countries.
– And as with any type of arbitrage, the ACT of arbitrage eventually leads to a new equilibrium state.
FALSE: it’s a failure because of job losses and the demise of the US’s economy.Â
– Meaning that US wages will go down and Chinese wages will go up.
FALSE: When Unions bargained, they demand higher wages, more benefits, and they add costs to companies and drive product costs higher than the foreign competitors.
SOURCE – Greta Van Susteren: Unions demand Viagra for teachers, higher retirement pay for Union leaders – some get up to 90% of their wages when they retire.
__________________
– Blaming all this on organized labor is simply a way of cheaply asserting your own political position on a more complex phenomenon.
FALSE: It is a fact of life. If you can’t understand it, then look around you WHERE HAVE all the large and medium businesses GONE?? Hint. China, India, Japan, Filipine, everywhere except the USSA.
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This is not about being liberal or Conservative, it’s a fact of life and that’s the way it is. And now you feel the pain and see the results.
Comments…..We just moved out of the Detroit Area back to Pennsylvania our home state. We’re glad we are out for good and away from that powder keg of a state. Shitloads of cops roam the burbs where we lived but we still had to contend with numerous robberies and breakins in our area. When and if the state cuts services and the popo get pink slips the crooks will have a field day jacking decent citizens. Hell with that place; never going back.Â
Comments…..there are many places that have dealt with similar problems caused primarily by unions taking over and demanding more than they should. i remember the mess over u.s.steel mills in pa., and indiana. and the illinois governments have been corrupt for over 60 years… looks to me like corruption only breeds more corruption from governments down to its people. detroits fleeing populations are like the fleeing populations of mississippi in the 40’s and 50’s, and 60’s. going to another state that has jobs and maybe still giving handouts.
@Jane: English must not be your first language or you just don’t understand the concepts. Labor arbitrage is the ability to source labor without regard to physical location. MY ENTIRE POINT is that labor has no power in foreign countries. Instead of your “FALSE!” proclamations, try some reading comprehension first. You obviously like posting more than you do reading, no there’s no need to spend time responding to the rest of your post.
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Dboy,
Without your Bullsh*t, I would not have posted what I did in the first place. You are the problem, because you are constantly misleading people, I only provide facts and common sense. I am not here for a writing contest, obviously you can write a few sentences without logic or rational.Â
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My problem with writing is ONLY AFFECTING ONE PERSON, ME, but your propaganda CAN CAUSE HAZARD TO MANY OTHERS if they are naïve enough to buy into your bullsh*t.
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As I said before English should have been my native language, but I was raised by different caretakers of different languages because of my family’s extensive traveling overseas, so I am not good with any one language – In simple terms, Get it!
Obama and Hillary have made many mistakes when they spoke, and unless they have 3â€X5†cards or teleprompters to read from and speechwriters writing for them. Guess what? And they are both lawyers.
My posting is about getting ideas across to everyone, not to perfect and talented liberal people, such as you alone.
Detroit is an example of failed socialism. The truth of the matter is that the left has been in charge of the cities for decades and they are in no better shape than before.
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DBoy is also absolutely right too. Between bad socialist government  and unfettered capitalism the common man and woman are toast. Borrow inflating dollars, go to school, get an education, get a degree and take control of your financial future: such as it is.
Stan: If you do not feed the poor, the poor will feed on you. They will not allow themselves to starve. Would you?
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If we cannot share a crust of bread, a cup of water, some meat, and a few veggies with our fellow man (and woman) then America has already lost its promise and its humanity. I don’t think that is too much to ask of me as a taxpayer.
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When the Changes come WE will recognize that the entire human race is at risk; including US.
god I hate morons  masquerading as geniuses…..we haven’t had unfettered capitalism here since 1777   what we have is crony capitalism enabled by a socialist government who takes bribes from corporations, unions, and every other special interest group trrying to stifle competition, WE NEED unfettered capitalism, and abolish the fed         7
dk-you’re right about Detroit being an example of failed socialism. Never lived there but I’ve been there many times and most of the city looks like 3rd world squalor. It’s downright scary to drive in at 2am to make a delivery in my truck. The warehouses aren’t in the nice part of town-and in Detroit there are no longer ANY nice, safe parts. Maybe way out in the burbs but not in the city. Side note: Truckers aren’t supposed to carry firearms in a commercial vehicle but my guess is close to half of us still do.
Maybe Dboy and Jane are both partly right. Dboy said it best: it’s the end of “nation-centric capitalism” That’s true. But he and Jane are just disagreeing over the replacement system. He calls it “High Globalization” and she calls it “Socialist Globalization.” In one system we get a few super rich folks controlling us and everything, in the other we get all powerful government controlling us and everything. And besides, the super rich have owned the government for a long time so I guess there really isn’t much difference in the two. Either way we’re screwed! Hopefully I’m wrong, but I think Detroit is just a preview of what most of our cities are gonna look like in the future.
Anonymous at 12:46–sure you can have my autograph, but it’ll cost you 2 cookies! :>
Dboy said:  Labor ARBITRAGE is the factor…the ability to source labor in any location in the world.
FALSE: Unions don’t have any power over foreign countries.
AS I’VE EMPHASIZED, NO ONE, INCLUDING UNIONS OR POLITICIANS, HAVE THE ABILITY TO SOURCE LABOR IN ANY LOCATION IN THE WORLD – REGARDLESS WITH OR WITHOUT LOCATIONS. UNIONS CANNOT DICTATE FOREIGN COUNTRIES’ POLICIES, PERIOD!
BTW:
Unfettered capitalism (Good) vs Fettered Capitalism (Socialism, Nationalsm).
              Â
I write to inform people, but you, (Dboy) write to mislead and offend people and show what a “smart a$$” you are.Â
I think too much and try to organize my thought to present them in a short paragraph and in a way that everyone can understand what I mean. Therefore, sometime I overlook my typo and grammar. Â
______________
Often, Liberals like you are not intellectual enough to debate the real issues, so you tend to pick on little things, or irrelevant issues to distract or to intimidate your opponents from that fact(s) – Go figure!
The EPA’s New Form of Land SeizureÂ
http://www.cdfe.org/cdfe-action-fund/epas-new-form-of-land-seizure/
Jane, if D-boy moved in next door to you, would you immediately go out and buy an AK47? Also, how much ammo do you think you might need to make sure you can blast him out of the neighborhood?
I spent 15 years working for a Tier One supplier to the Big Three.
I’ve therefor been close enough to the epicenter to point out that Detroit the city is declining at ten times the rate of the auto industry. The reason is Coleman Young, the Robert Mugabe of Michigan, and his successors. Socialism? Well, not really. Kleptocracy describes it best.
Go to Oakland and Macomb counties, and you’ll find all the newer auto plants, and a much more vibrant economy. Take a look at the skyscrapers in Southfield. Livingston county, too. Those populations are in serious danger.
The infrastructure of the city proper has completely collapsed, and can’t support the kleptocrats and their constituency. It is now a clear and present danger to the surrounding communities, unless it’s subsidized by millions and millions of dollars a year. Let that subsidy be cut back or eliminated, and prepping, and especially the personal-defense aspects, will be essential to simple survival.
My decision to retire early and GTHOD to a small rural farm in another state looks better all the time.
Some People say a solution to the problems People – such as those in Detroit – face today is to borrow inflating dollars to go to school. That’s not exactly good advise according to this article:
Dark Lords of Student Loan Debt
“I urge everyone that has college bound children to read these two articles carefully. In lieu of a lifetime of debt servitude, why not suggest your child go to a cheaper school, work for a scholarship and get a job to pay for their education?
They will end up thanking you for helping them escape the bonds of modern “educational serfdom.â€
http://foundingfather1776.wordpress.com/2011/02/07/dark-lords-of-student-loan-debt/
Clark: One doesn’t need to borrow a fortune to go to school and get a good skill or education. However, while the economy is in the tank, now is the best time to do it. That has been the norm during every previous recession as well.
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State Universities, local tech schools, or online schools can provide a good education at a reasonable cost. Its more profitable than sitting in your mother’s basement cutting and pasting. One doesn’t need to become a servant to debt to leverage their capabilities.
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One can also work as they are going to school (as I did as a totally independent student) or live at home. I have posted this strategy before. It will work for those who are motivated whether the live in Detroit or anywhere else in America.
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Life is still up to the individual; as is their education and skills. Those of you reading this post without any of either, need to get some or you will be left behind.
@DK – Don’t forget trades. Skill based ones like electrician, refrigeration and plumbing (sorry nail pounders, its not a skill unless you are a master craftsman and not just a framer). A lot of older guys will be retiring in the next 10-20 years and there will be a lot of openings. Plus you get paid to learn. No debt what-so-ever as in most of those trades you just need some basic hand tools that should cost no more then $100 for cheap ones (you can replace them with better after a few paychecks).
Â
Thankfully in Canada at least when I got my refrigeration ticket I also got my gas ticket and residential/commercial/industrial electrical tickets also (took those courses with the guys going just for their individual ticket but it was mandatory to get electrical when I did it, gas was optional). I like having 5 tickets. Also with my Canadian certification I can work in the US and Europe (I’m a US resident, Canadian citizen and mother is a former German citizenship giving me an EU work permit if I request it) because all of them recognize my certification. That and I have a few other businesses on the go, I hope to have a job for a while to come. But one cannot be lazy (doubt few here are) and expect to do well.
Hey emptyhandkiller,
That’s very funny, if and only if Dboy were a Nobel prize winner like Obama, then I’d have to worry about him. Otherwise, I would move you next door to his house and let you take care of him.Â
Actually, I was deadly accurate when I first time, I practiced shooting. I guess, I am a natural (thank God), Or maybe, I should be a female Rombee since you mentioned it – LOL. Actually, I hate guns and violence.Â
Also Obama, Hillary and our leaders have repeated lecturing the world about freedom and free speech.Â
Obama said: “FREE SPEECH IS A UNIVERSAL RIGHT.â€, SO KEEP POSTING TO SPREAD THE TRUTH TO SET US FREE.Â
Mike L.: Absolutely. I didn’t forget tech or craftsmanship. I suspect some machinists will do well making and repairing firearms etc. In Arizona refrigeration guys are always at a premium.
Â
Everyone has a gift(s). Its up to them to make the most of them. Further training of any kind along the line of your gift is always a good idea to make you better at it. Education is a never ending process to increase your skill set: whatever that is.
Â
If one has to borrow money to get that education, now is the time to do it and get it. You will be paying the loans back with dollars worth 50% less than today. Thats like buying gold or silver. Invest in yourself.
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SmokinOkie: Â WE can call it whatever WE want including “crony capitalism”. Bottom line, imagine the political/financial spectrum as a string. When you bring the ends of the strings together, you have a noose, with one ideology blending onto the other.
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To escape the noose you must prep: mentally, physically,financially, psychologically, emotionally, and spiritually. Only the strong will survive the Changes.
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The best laid plans of the NWO will meet its own fate.
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we have been away from true capitalism since those pricks started the fed reserve. even FDR only wanted social security to be an insurance type program; not the godawful mess it’s become today.
   Prep and learn how to garden. it feels weird out here. Jane you go girl! Manos good luck.
Getting a student loan is Not at all like buying gold and silver.
From the article:
“CollegeScholarships.org has provided a detailed infograph that explains how the system methodically grinds up the ambitions of high-school graduates and their parents and converts the graduates into helpless debt-slaves with less recourse or hope of escape from the system than had Victorian debt-prisoners of the 19th century. The dark secret of the college-loan system is that it is not designed to help students pay for college and generate a reasonable interest-profit for the loan provider that will be paid off within a short period of time after the student begins working and receives a degree-enhanced salary. It is specifically designed to keep the graduate on a treadmill of debt that will ideally never be repaid.
… For community college students, the prospects were grimmer still: between 30 and 42 percent were expected to default. And the future was most discouraging for students at for-profits: between 38 and 51 percent were anticipated to default.
You can see that the default rate among student borrowers is expected to be higher than that for subprime home mortgages…
That student borrowers will in fact be in a position similar to subprime mortgage debtors is also indicated in the Bureau of Labor Statistics December 2009 projection of job growth over the next ten years. Most of these jobs will be low paying and will not require a bachelor’s degree…”
Did it ever occur to anyone that the reason for the industrial preeminence of the U.S., high wages, market share and all the rest until represented by Detroit until say the 1980’s was that the manufacturing capacity of the rest of the industrialized world was destroyed by WW II and other nations didn’t have any didn’t have any. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out our present circumstance
Socialism/communism (atheistic by nature) is the inevitable result of atheistic capitalism and the so-called free market / usury based system we toil under…tis the revolt of the proletariat. Read Hillaire Billoc’s “Crisis of Civilization” from I believe 1937. Neither communism nor unbridled atheistic capitalism works. There is a third way but I don’t think we can get there from here without a major “SHTF” event. I believe that’s comin’ too but it’s not for this site.
http://www.amazon.com/Crisis-Civilization-Hilaire-Belloc/dp/0895554623/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1301338398&sr=8-1
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Mac, since we are all human, a single error is inevitable. However, when you make the same mistake twice, namely confabulating ‘socialism’ with a host of other ‘isms’ is either lazy or intentionally obtuse.
The entire premise of this post is 180 degrees wrong, again. Just like your last post on ‘socialism’. Our government is not in any way socialist. It is FASCIST. Try to understand, there is a difference. Wiki says:
“A socialist society is organized on the basis of relatively equal power-relations, self-management, dispersed decision-making (adhocracy) and a reduction or elimination of hierarchical and bureaucratic forms of administration and governance; the extent of which varies in different types of socialism.”
On the other hand, Wiki says this about Fascism:
Fascists seek to organize a nation according to corporatist perspectives, values, and systems, including the political system and the economy.[3] They advocate the creation of a totalitarian single-party state that seeks the mass mobilization of a nation and the creation of an ideal “new man” to form a governing elite through indoctrination, physical education, and family policy including eugenics.[4] Fascists believe that a nation requires strong leadership, singular collective identity, and the will and ability to commit violence and wage war in order to keep the nation strong.[5] Fascist governments forbid and suppress opposition to the state.”
If you continue to make this obvious mistake, I’ll have to conclude that your goal is not to educate and entertain folks with serious topics, but rather to grab for some of those Koch Bros. dollars and land on the klepto gravy train.
Clark: You are right Clark, investing in yourself by borrowing money for a student loan and paying it back in grossly inflated dollars isn’t like buying gold and silver:
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Its much, much better. Â Students do not need to borrow an enormous amount of debt to make them economic slaves: just enough to leverage their personal potential. Debt is a useful tool either personal or corporate if used judiciously.
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Gold and silver will rise and fall in value in the marketplace as it always has. The education and skills that one learns by going to class, getting an education, Â and leveraging one’s knowledge, capabilities, and skills, should continue to increase the individual’s value in the marketplace over time; not diminish it. The best time for anyone to do it is while the economy is in recession.
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Knowledge is power. Power is the ability to create and manipulate ideas and things and influence people. It takes personal power to create wealth or fulfill any other desire in life and achieve an individuals personal potential.
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Knowledge has always been the key to living a successful, abundant life. It worked for me. It will work for others too. Those inclined toward further higher education should not be dissuaded by you or anyone else. If someone wants it, go get it. You will not be disappointed. Just remember that you will get out of it what you put into it.
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Clark, if you are happy sitting in your mother’s basement , cutting and pasting, looking for an excuse not to go to school, and encouraging others to remain as ignorant as you are; You found it. God bless you.
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Quit cutting and pasting, start doing, and live.
Truly, it seems to me the phrase, “Debt is a useful tool” are the words of a Kensyian banker.
Also, People who consistently resort to ad hominems, cosmetic smear jobs and baseless assumptions in place of discussing the facts are a bit lower on the scale than bankers, the motives of both are suspect.
Especially those who do not accept the modern day uses of technology and communication methods.
What worked for some People in the past, might not work for others going forward, brad’s excellent comment above touches on the why.
There are many People who listened to the cheerleaders for the Dark Lords of Student Loan Debt, here’s is an example from the earlier article that is becoming more common:
“My name is Luther Callahan and I am one of the many many students who believed in the dream of being highly educated in order to provide a good life for my family. Well…my wife and I believed believed in this. I can not find gainful employment. My wife has been furloughed on her job and has not received a raise in five years.
We don’t expect anyone to give us anything this is why we went out and got educated. However, everyone is more than willing to take what we do not have (money). Student loans are due and we can not pay them all. We are receiving the standard threats and are at our wits end as to what to do. Where are the solutions? What is in the works that will alleviate student stress?
Some of the heartless employees of these banks ask outlandish questions like “what was your plan for paying the money back?†I would tell them I did not plan for there to be a global financial meltdown. I had no idea that this would occur. I did not plan for there to be employment freezes and massive layoffs and cuts within my state. We are at a loss and these banks are poised to take everything.â€
Here’s a few more clues to consider, brackets mine:
For the last 40 years, we as a country have done nothing but borrow and spend. The majority of those in Congress either knew exactly what they were doing, or were delusional in thinking that later generations would figure out how to resolve the problems they created. Delusion will now make way for reality…
The system, built upon mounds of debt, will crumble. There is simply no alternative.
https://www.shtfplan.com/forecasting/short-of-a-miracle-america-doesnt-stand-a-chance_03142011
…the inflation effect has crossed from the monetary side to the price systems, hitting the entire cost structure in a profound way. The moron bankers strive to cut off the process from handing higher wages to the workers, so that they can afford a higher cost of living. [Or the cost of their student loan payments.] The leaders thus strive to bankrupt the Middle Class, hardly a pursuit in commitment of economic recovery. The cost squeeze is deeply felt by both businesses and households, businesses that cannot hold their workers as profits erode badly, and households that cannot maintain their spending patterns as incomes are devoted increasingly to food, fuel, clothing, insurance, and everything else. Tax revenues from wages and corporate profits and capital gains are descending into the gutter, not available to cover the US Govt deficits. Witness the death of the US Economy in hyper-drive, pushed by the US Fed Quantitative Easing.
…
Some advice. As the movement swirls, as the next QE program details are revealed, as the central bank model is shattered in discredit, as the global monetary system crumbles before your eyes, as sovereign debt worldwide loses its exalted safe haven security, as your personal budget finances erode beyond your worst nightmare, invest what is left of your life savings in Gold and especially Silver. In time, they will be the primary portions of your portfolio with surviving value. Each will rise, but Silver will do a moon shot!!
https://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/us-monetary-policy-any-attempt-to-halt-the-process-results-in-almost-immediate-total-annihilation_03112011
[The cheerleaders for the Dark Lords of Student Loan Debt would have you believe the following is true:]
“The worst of the storm has passed,†declared President Obama in his 2010 State of the Union address. For all intents and purposes, any threat of a second great depression has been averted.
https://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/the-project-to-restore-america_03092011
[The cheerleaders for the Dark Lords of Student Loan Debt would have you believe the following is a fine time to increase your debt:]
But what is depicted by our media and the official statistics put forth by government number crunchers, and what is happening on the ground on Main Street America, are two wholly different things.
we are not out of the woods yet. In fact, unless something changes, America as we know it today is in grave danger.
https://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/a-visit-to-an-american-tent-city_03112011
Consumers in the US are getting broker by the day. As food and energy prices rise, consumers will be forced to adjust their spending habits. Paying 30% – 100% more for food at the grocery store means less money spent at movie theaters, electronic stores and restaurants. In turn, this spending adjustment in discretionary consumer spending means more people will lose their jobs, and so too will people in the industries that support those markets, for example, transportation companies. It simply cannot be any other way.
https://www.shtfplan.com/marc-faber/marc-faber-on-inflation-stock-markets-gold-real-estate-and-the-end-game_02222011
[Again, the cheerleaders for the Dark Lords of Student Loan Debt would have you believe the above is a fine time to increase your debt.]
If this most recent report is accurate in its assessment, the only thing left for the average American at this point is to prepare for an imminent catastrophic shock and awe that will destroy life in America as we have come to know it…
https://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/report-a-three-phased-catastrophic-attack-is-in-process-against-the-us-economy_03012011
[Yet again, the cheerleaders for the Dark Lords of Student Loan Debt would have you believe the above is a fine time to increase your debt.]
The real kicker is, that as more money is printed, goods will continue to rise, because most of that printed money ends up in speculative stock market and commodity investments, further driving up prices on essential goods. As those prices rise, there will not be an adjustment to wages – putting further pressure on consumer spending and job losses. It’s a negative feedback loop that simply cannot be stopped, and the very actions we’ve been told are the solutions to our problems are actually contributing to, and further enabling, the crisis.
https://www.shtfplan.com/marc-faber/marc-faber-on-inflation-stock-markets-gold-real-estate-and-the-end-game_02222011
Make a conscious choice to avoid your own personal debt prison and wealth decline by whatever means you have available…
https://www.shtfplan.com/precious-metals/the-money-of-kings-gentleman-peasants-and-slaves_02062011
In preparation in businesses or professionally, or individually, your cost of doing business or living should be reduced…
https://www.shtfplan.com/precious-metals/liquidate-iras-and-401ks-or-suffer-grievous-losses_12082010
…Every American is taking a pay cut every time the dollar loses value…
The loss of jobs that we outlined in our recently posted video is not going to stop. Neither will the real decline in wages in terms of the US dollar. Debt will continue to be defaulted on – in mortgages, car loans, credit cards, and student loans.
The free market is trying to cleanse itself.
Over the last twenty or thirty years we experienced a period of robust, often excessive, growth. Now we are experiencing the hangover, a self reinforcing negative feedback loop that is going to wipe out wealth (and debt) across the entire spectrum of the US and global economy.
It simply cannot be stopped. It is mathematically impossible, and the last two years prove that. No matter how much money is printed, how many laws are passed, how many financial institutions are bailed out, it will not stop until the system is rebalanced.
https://www.shtfplan.com/peter-schiff/all-of-this-is-going-to-impoverish-a-great-number-of-americans_10192010
…it will all come down to what you feel is valuable to your specific situation and what your expectations are going forward…
https://www.shtfplan.com/precious-metals/conversations-on-inflation-gold-value-and-paying-a-mortgage-in-inflated-dollars_10032010
Since the government and Wall Street have caused these problems for the most part, and, incredibly, they believe that the same policies which put us on this destructive path are somehow going to take us off it, we should not listen to what they are telling us to do right now (i.e. spend instead of save and speculate with our wealth instead of preserve it). In fact it is time to do everything we can to de-couple from the culture as much as we can. It’s time to do for ourselves what the government is no longer willing (and possibly no longer able) to do for this country as a whole. There is not much time left, but we should use what little time we have to GET BACK to some concepts that we have been ignoring for far too long. Since our government will not follow the concepts outlined below, we must follow them on an individual level in order to come out ahead in the times to come…
Don’t be the Typical American – Drowing in Debt . Do you consistently spend more money than you make? WELL, THEN STOP IT IMMEDIATELY! The first step to getting out of debt isn’t actually paying off the debt itself. It’s learning how to live within your means so as to not get into more debt.
…Look at the various ways that the current administration [and the cheerleaders for the Dark Lords of Student Loan Debt] is sending the message that †getting into debt is a good thing“. Of course, the government’s own debt load can speak for itself, yet their recent efforts to incentivize you and I to follow in their footsteps should be a huge red flag…
…One day this very same government [and the cheerleaders for the Dark Lords of Student Loan Debt] who told you and I to get into all this debt is soon going to be faced with the choice of defaulting on its own debt and raising our taxes just so it can pay the interest on it. At that point, what used to be affordable home and car payments [and student loans] that the government coerced us into will be incredibly difficult to make with an increasing tax burden on our backs. Therefore, those of us with the least amount of debt will be able to absorb the coming tax increases a lot easier than those of us who are in debt up to our eyeballs when it comes. According to Marc Faber (publisher of the Gloom Boom and Doom Report) “excessive credit growth†was the main cause of the crisis we are now facing. Therefore, getting out of the red and into the black is the best thing you can do on a personal level to position yourself for what is coming.
https://www.shtfplan.com/schaef/the-schaef-report-get-back-august-2010_08042010
Britain’s Labour Government was a good example of this: they lied on a scale unseen in British politics. They lied about every statistic possible because the numbers didn’t add up. People were led to believe they brought 13 years of low unemployment and unbridled prosperity, but in fact it was all debt and welfare payments. And when the system collapsed in 2008, they just borrowed more money to keep it going. But even that is now collapsing. Real wealth and prosperity can’t come from the top and certainly can’t come from a government that lies about statistics and covers up the truth.
I generally find it helpful to read the referenced articles to understand the context of the subject discussed before posting….It will reveal the flaws in many of the responses here that are lauding the virtues of Socialism.
“The reason why unions were a bad experiment was because they merely turned the employer into slave and altered the free markets in a way contrary to the nature of mankind. Historically, when crops failed, in an agrarian model, people migrated…..Unions just promoted increased wages rather than skills, diminishing the individual motivation to learn new skills and migrate between jobs….Do not think for one moment that the union model is any different from the Communist model. It is not. Where in a normal economic model to earn more, one improves his skills, the Communist model, promotes advances in income without improvement in skills. ….Instead of the workforce migrating to better lands, the communistic model reversed the roles and forced the employer to migrate. ….Labor demanded the highest wages for the lowest productivity, and consumers demanded the lowest price with the highest reliability. ….Throughout history humans have never migrated without reason. Migrations take place when prodded by the fickle finger of necessity.â€Â Martin A. Armstrong, former chairman of Princeton Economics International, Armstrong Economics, Copyright, December 11, 2008
Clark: I feel badly for all of the victims of the “Dark Lords” who fell prey to that “propaganda” and now cannot pay back their student loans; but there is more opportunity in the country now than even before for those smart enough to position themselves correctly and leverage their education.
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There are no financial guarantees in life unless you have a trust fund from mommy and daddy.
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Not everyone is successful the first time around in life, or the second, or the third. For those who are persistent, who refuse to quit, who make the effort again and again and again; these will find that they learn from their mistakes, and that LIFE will not quit on you if you do not quit on it.
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On the contrary, LIFE will eventually yield to your dreams if you make an effort big enough to move your dreams forward. That requires personal power. Initiative is the active ingredient in personal power. Many give up before achieving their dream. LIFE is plastic for a reason. One can put their stamp on it if they refused to be moved, spiritually speaking. That is a spiritual law.
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LIFE must eventually yield. If one refuses to quit, LIFE will.
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I did not discover my precious metals mine until I was 50 years old. Failure is for your edification. I learned more on my own than I learned in College and I learned even more from my failures; but University was the knowledge basis upon which I built my dreams.
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Everyone has their individual dreams. University may not be for everyone. But those with that education and that diploma have a better chance at financial success than those that don’t, if you expect someone to give you a job. If one has a skill or trade one can make their own job. Otherwise they will be sitting in their mommy’s basement ……. cutting and pasting.
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When I graduated HS at eighteen, I emptied my savings account of $150, took a suitcase, stuck out my thumb, and never looked back. I speak from experience and education. The dreams I had then are the same dreams that I have now. It has taken me 40 years to become an “overnight success”. And I am still working to achieve them.
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We all have a purpose in life and failure will help a person find their purpose if they keep searching. Maybe these individuals need to move, to relocate, and build a different future somewhere else. A future MEANT for them. Failure requires one to open one’s mind to other possibilities that otherwise they would have never considered.
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Without failure they may never find that future. Failure requires one to go within to discover who they are and why they are here. Those who are successful right out of the box often miss that opportunity until later in life. Then it costs them much more to learn lessons that they could have learned earlier in life.
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The glass is always half full or half empty. WE get to choose our perspective. My glass is bubbling over, because that is the way I see it. There is opportunity everywhere! And anyone who doesn’t see it should be getting all the education they can with dollars that will inflate with a thousands cuts.
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The money that these students pay back will be worth much, much less as time goes by. The education they will receive will be worth much, much more if properly applied.
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As an “expert” in fiscal responsibility and a “critic” of the national debt, I am sure from your rants here that you understand the dollars demise. If it loses half its value, then the students that borrowed some money to go to school only had to pay half the cost, didn’t they?
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Some times life is a no-brainer. Education, even if you have to borrow for it, is a no-brainer.
Interesting comments….especially the latest from Footloose.I don’t recall anyone lauding “socialism” here as a cure for Detroit’s Ills.In fact,I for one would like to know what people like JANE define “Socialism” as being.Everyone here who decries “unions” and “Socialism” as the sole faults/problems of Detroit are little more than cheerleaders for unbridled Capitalism at best.And terribly misguided at worst.Your quote of:”unions were a bad experiment was because they merely turned the employer into slave”is utter rubbish and without any merit or substance,Footloose! Quoting a fool(professor or not) with a agenda to support your position is still quoting a fool.I have yet to meet ANY such “slaves”in my lifetime.When you can produce one instance of such do let me know.Yet You seem to be well educated from your tone of writing.Did you conveniently forget that” Big Business” fought tooth and nail with lies,savage brute force (when possible),and every quasi-legal trick they knew to prevent the 5-day workweek,workplace safety laws and lest we forget,child labor laws and PAID overtime(and they still try to do so today).These things were fought for with blood,sweat and tears by UNIONS, not “businessmen”.Are you(Footloose)advocating we as a country should regress to those “good ‘ol days before organized labor?If not,just what are you advocating?The Middle Ages?Do make your position clear.The majority of these “Corporate Leaders”would claim nominally to be Christians,yet refuse to “do unto others as you would have others do unto you” as stated by Jesus Christ.Big business left Detroit because they wanted “freedom” to act in any fashion they saw fit,without fear of accountability for the harm they cause to their employee’s and the environment in general(just as in Mexico and now Japan).Aside from all that,lest U think I’m purely ant-business,I’m not.I DO agree that ALL businessmen need to have their companies make money,no question about it.Profit in business,in itself is not wrong and even a good thing for both employer and employee. It’s when the obsessive Love of Money and Profit is at the expense of and at the cost to anything else that gets Corporations(Union Leaders and Government Leaders included!)into morally untenable positions.I don’t know if Detroit can be fixed,but they may have to “Think Small” to get their financial house in order.
Beat to All
GFG
It is stunning when a condescending Person loaded with assumptions who has made their way to fortune during the biggest boom time in all of history suggests to others who potentially face the worst collapse in all of history to do exactly what was a recipe for success in days gone by as if it’s a sure thing.
If People want to ignore and disparage the advice found on SHTFPLAN, that’s their choice I guess.
“…getting out of the red and into the black is the best thing you can do on a personal level to position yourself for what is coming.”
I guess some People don’t understand what this means:
“… For community college students, the prospects were grimmer still: between 30 and 42 percent were expected to default. And the future was most discouraging for students at for-profits: between 38 and 51 percent were anticipated to default.” … And it often wasn’t because they didn’t move or weren’t smart enough.
I guess some People don’t understand how increasing prices – increases in the cost of living – affect the ability to pay back loans with rising interest rates?
I guess some People don’t see and understand that, “the default rate among student borrowers is expected to be higher than that for subprime home mortgages…”
I guess some People thought buying a house in 2005 with a neg am no doc loan was a good idea too, it was even called a, “No brainier” the road to sure riches, as good as gold, even better?
Psft. I guess some People don’t read SHTFPLAN, they just act like they do.
Clark: I don’t expect students to follow the same recipe for success as I did. That would be foolhardy. New times require new strategies. Thats why borrowing now for your education is better than ever! Students that borrow now will be paying back their education loans with dollars worth much much less, while their skill sets should be even greater from that education allowing them to multiply their earning potential. And if the SHTF and there is a total financial collapse to the point of teotwawki, like so many here believe, these students won’t have to pay back anything!
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Ever person has their own personal destiny with latent gifts, talents, and skills to develop to fulfill that destiny. Education magnifies those GT&S. I didn’t have to borrow much because I worked two jobs while going to college as an independent student. Everyone has to measure the risk reward ratio for themselves. Life is about making choices and living with the results.
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No mommy or daddy to assist me, I did it on my own since I was 17 and a senior in HS with my own apartment. I can tell you that the little bit I did borrow, I could not pay back with rapidly inflating dollars as students today will be able to do. Thats the key. I had to pay back my loan in real dollars.
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Every generation has its own challenges. Yours is no different than mine in that regard. In every crisis their is a seed of opportunity for those with the proper perspective, attitude, and initiative.
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” … getting out of the red and into the black is the best thing you can do on a personal level to position yourself for what is coming.”
Not necessarily. That advice applies to people with assets, not to students without assets; (so those assets cannot be repossessed).
Inflation is nothing new. Interest rates are at historic LOWS. You are not old enough to remember the inflation of the seventies or the interest rates under Carter. As I remember, prime rates were 18%, so quit pissing, moaning, crying and whining, looking for an excuse to fail!
If it will make you feel better about yourself, my first job was a garbage man making $1.50 an hour. So you can see I was destined for the top of the heap. 🙂
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You and your generation can make it too if you quit copping an attitude, looking for an excuse to fail, roll up your sleeves, and get to work.
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Want to make $100 a day? Go down to your local Home Depot, buy a bucket and a squeege and go house to house cleaning windows.
Inflation is nothing
Education Inflation:
The theory behind Pell grants (and other scholarships on state and local levels) is that more college education means less poverty – people who are educated will make more money. The trouble is that this money has to come from somewhere. There has to be a demand for college education…
Flooding the market with supply in the absence of demand creates a surplus, which drives down prices – in this case, salaries. And we might ask, what is the value of education? How can it be measured? For those who sought to go to college in order to make more money, the value is in the salary. And so for them, the value of education has been decreased. For those that have actually paid for it, they have paid for something whose value is decreasing over time due to government action. In many cases they have also landed themselves in debt. Either way, this is a prime example of an investment turned sour by State intervention…
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig5/zupancic3.html
The Student Loan Debt Bubble:
“Could there be a student debt bubble at a time when college graduates’ jobs and earnings prospects are as gloomy as they have been at any time since the Great Depression?….
There is about $830 billion in total outstanding federal and private student-loan debt. Only 40% of that debt is actively being repaid. The rest is in default, or in deferment (when a student requests temporary postponement of payment because of economic hardship), which means payments and interest are halted, or in forbearance. Interest on government loans is suspended during deferment, but continues to accrue on private loans.
As tuitions increase, loan amounts increase; private loan interest rates have reached highs of 20%. Add that to a deeply troubled economy and dismal job market, and we have the full trappings of a major bubble…
Two out of every five students enrolled at proprietary schools are in default on their education loans 15 years after the loans were issued…
Congressional hearings on the recruitment techniques of proprietary colleges … showing admissions staff at proprietary schools using recruitment techniques explicitly forbidden by the National Association of College Admissions Counselors. Admissions and enrollment employees are also shown misrepresenting the costs of an education, the graduation and employment rates of students, and the accreditation status of institutions.
These deceptions increase the likelihood that graduates of for-profits will have special difficulties repaying their loans, since the majority enrolled at these schools are low-income students. (Forbes magazine, Oct. 26, 2010, “When For-Profits Target Low-Income Students,†Arnold L. Mitchem)
A credit score is not required for federal loan eligibility. Neither is information regarding income, assets, or employment. Borrowing is still encouraged in the face of strong evidence that the likelihood of default is high.
Loaning money to anyone without prime qualifications was “subprime lending†during the ballooning of the housing bubble, when banks were enticing otherwise ineligible candidates to buy houses they could not afford.
Shouldn’t easy lending without adequate credit checks to college students with insecure credit also be considered “subprime lendingâ€?…
Graduate or not, the debt burden remains…
The school holds out the lure of high-paying jobs upon graduation, but either no such jobs exist or they require education or experience beyond what the school provided…
…Many of those who attended for-profits don’t earn enough to repay their loans. It’s not uncommon…
Paying back student loans out of low income and over a long period of time can rule out the possibility of making other financial investments required for the vanishing American Dream, such as buying a house, or saving for retirement or for one’s children’s education…
All in all, the for-profits’ track record is more than dismaying. In too many cases, students leave proprietary schools in worse financial shape than they were in before they enrolled. The problem is not limited to proprietary graduates: most of this generation of college grads now possess more debt than opportunity…
Most of those affected by the meltdown of 2008 had completed their education and were either employed or retired. The student loan debt bubble signals a generation that enters the work of paid work cursed with what is more likely than not to be a life of permanent indebtedness and low wages…
Both recent trends and the most informed projections for the future of the labor market reveal that most of the current cohort of indebted students will face earnings prospects far poorer than what job seekers could expect during the period of the longest wave of sustained economic growth and the highest wages in US history, 1949-1973. The present generation will experience the indefinite extension of Reagan-to-Obama low wage neoliberalism…
…Just do the simple math on all the categories on both lists: the great majority of new jobs will be low-paying…
Our first austerity generation will be in debt to its teeth and stuck with low-wage work. The relative penury will require more debt still. Michael Hudson calls this debt peonage…”
Alan Nasser is professor emeritus of Political Economy at The Evergreen State College in Olympia, Washington.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rep/student-loan-debt-bubble.html
Clark: Back to cutting and pasting to reinforce your “poor me and my generation” perspective? Â 🙂 It doesn’t sell, except to individuals with a loser mentality.
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Give it up Clark and get a new guru. Someone that still believes the individual CAN, if he WILLS, and if he takes the initiative. Without a can do attitude, determination, and initiative you will end up living on your Google Ad Sense income: and thats ok too if that is what you want. Money isn’t everything, but it is all that its cracked up to be.
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So what if the jobs that are created are low paying and will remain so for the long term? Where does it say that workers, with or without an education are entitled to a good paying job in life? GMAFB!!!
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If I worked for someone else my “job” would be low paying too. Create your own job! Incorporate! Become a capitalist and follow the capitalist theories, particularly those about debt, that you promote. Don’t sit on the sidelines, son, get in the game!
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If you think I was kidding about the bucket and squeegee, I wasn’t! There are a number of people in Phoenix Arizona making more than $100,000 a year washing windows, who started ….. house to house.
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Now that we have rid Arizona of about 500,000 Illegals, there is room for Landscape Contractors here. Move to Arizona and do lawns and windows; you’ll make a fortune!
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PS: Screens are extra!
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Now, 100k may not be much in NYC but in most of the country thats damn good money. I suspect these students could repay their loans if they were willing to do what was necessary. They are not. Your generation is not Generation X: thats a misnomer.
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Its the “give me, take me, buy me, please me” generation!
Clark: The value of a college education is NOT in the salary or benefits: its in the knowledge base acquired which the individual can apply to any particular business opportunity.
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The argument offered by the author is based upon an invalid premise.
NWO U.N. Blue NAFTA DHS – COP KILLER
Bye Bye American Pie!
I shot and killed a NWO U.N. blue Cop with my .45 semi-auto black glock today… a Disabled, Homeless, Cold and Hungry Veteran… I deserve more than this… now I live beneath a bridge… why? why? why?
I had done my time… stood my watch upon the wall; a Gaurdian of Liberty… now a cop killer?  Running from the Law… why? why? why?
The false NWO IMF homo druggy prostitute barry soetoro- a.k.a illegal president Barack Obama and AIPAC israeli jew controlled U.S. congress… stopped my Social Security check the other day… on april 8th, 2011… they broke america’s piggy bank… gave away the pennies to the banks and told me “sorry” none for you! You are Many! And We are Few… MORE FOR US! None for You!
I am a Disabled Veteran… I once Served My Country with Honor and Pride.
I killed a NWO U.N. blue NAFTA DHS Cop Today… why? why? why?
 I had robbed the local Korean corner store… while the radio on the shelf played “Bye Bye American Pie”… I’d only pocketed a milk, hot pocket and a pie… ran by the screaming korean clerk for the open sky… hopped on my ex neighbors kids pink huffy bike… peddling in a craze… hauling fast down the lane… making my one handed get away… thinking “bye bye american pie”… smiling in mirth… while with my other hand grabbing from my shirt, a half frozen Hot Pocket… then a crushed Moon Pie… shoved both gleefully in my mouth… I had gotten away … then I sweared “shit!”… it all dribbling down my beard… I thought; I shoulda done like Ben Bernanke… and taken more, more, more…
Then down the way… my calves screaming in pain… I slowed down… a mistake… I’m screwed now… an NWO U.N. Blue NAFTA DHS Cop car pulled up behind, tires screeching… siren blaring , lights a twirling, screaming over the horn “PULL THE HELL OVER!”
At that time… I said to myself “FUCK IT!” an thought “I’m homeless cold and hungry”… this Asshole Cop isn’t gonna do me like “Rodney King”!… “The NWO U.N. IMF Fuckers did this to me”… I skidded to a stop “swiiishhhh!”… planted my worn out boots upon cold concrete… reached into my sweat soiled pants waist… an pulled my cold heavy .45 glock like slow dead weight… fingers numb… pointed it at the windshield of the NWO U.N. NAFTA blue patrol car… looking the Cop dead in the eye… I recognized him, he use to be nice to me, always smiling when we met on the street… Officer Friendly, now wearing NWO Camo Combat Gear, with U.N. Sky Blue Patches… once our neighborhood hero… here to “Protect and Serve”… now no more… now he is a DHS Federalized Thug… a NWO U.N. NAFTA blue Storm Trooper Whore… ordered by our illegal false president obama to “Punish and Enslave!”
And while the innocent child in me… kept asking… “why, why, why ?”… the newly found stone cold cop killer in me… didn’t bat an eye… I aimed an pulled the trigger BLAMÂ BLAM BLAM 1,2,3… right through the windshield… into the NWO U.N. blue NAFTA DHS Whore’s red screaming face!!!
There I stood astride my pink huffy steed… staring dead pan at the car’s brown vinyl covered rear seat, red blood, white bone chips and grey pink brain matter splattered over it. Staring through the shattered windshield and GAPING red hole that had been a human face.
Humming to myself “BYE BYE AMERICAN PIE”… thinking “I’m still Hungry!”
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author after note: Wake up America, there are foreign troops and american traitor troops under the United Nations blue Flag, NAFTA blue Patch and IMF Bank Control right now; at this very moment here on American, Canadian and Mexican soil. Just waiting for our Illegal President Obama to call MARTIAL LAW! Upon which time they will invade america and place you all; america under their U.N. NWO IMF military control. It’s either YOU or THEM!!! U.N. AGENDA 21 is here!!!
NOW is the time to…
Talk to family and friends…
ARM UP STOCK UP PREPARE
PREDITOR OR PREY THE CHOICE IS YOURS!
And remember all US POLICE and SHERIFF DEPARTMENTS , NATIONAL GUARD TROOPS ARE NOW FEDERALIZED UNDER U.N. NAFTA FEMA DHS-UNITED NATIONS CONTROL!
They are not here to protect you! They are here to disarm you – “Punish and Enslave!”
To Force you all under their one world government control – NWO Debt Slaves one and all!
U.N. AGENDA 21 is here!
… spread the word.
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tekroanin, the word to spread is non-violence:
Ending Tyranny Without Violence:
“…every tyranny must necessarily be grounded upon general popular acceptance. In short, the bulk of the people themselves, for whatever reason, acquiesce in their own subjection. If this were not the case, no tyranny, indeed no governmental rule, could long endure. Hence, a government does not have to be popularly elected to enjoy general public support; for general public support is in the very nature of all governments that endure, including the most oppressive of tyrannies. The tyrant is but one person, and could scarcely command the obedience of another person, much less of an entire country, if most of the subjects did not grant their obedience by their own consent.
…For if tyranny really rests on mass consent, then the obvious means for its overthrow is simply by mass withdrawal of that consent. The weight of tyranny would quickly and suddenly collapse under such a non-violent revolution…
Tyrants need not be expropriated by force; they need only be deprived of the public’s continuing supply of funds and resources. The more one yields to tyrants, La Boétie points out, the stronger and mightier they become. But if the tyrants “are simply not obeyed,” they become “undone and as nothing.” La Boétie then exhorts the “poor, wretched, and stupid peoples” to cast off their chains by refusing to supply the tyrant any further with the instruments of their own oppression. The tyrant, indeed, has nothing more than the power that you confer upon him to destroy you. Where has he acquired enough eyes to spy upon you, if you do not provide them yourselves? How can he have so many arms to beat you with, if he does not borrow them from you? The feet that trample down your cities, where does he get them if they are not your own? How does he have any power over you except through you? How would he dare assail you if he had not cooperation from you?
La Boétie concludes his exhortation by assuring the masses that to overthrow the tyrant they need not act, nor shed their blood. They can do so “merely by willing to be free.” In short,
Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces.
…For while the assassination of a tyrant is simply an isolated individual act within an existing political system, mass civil disobedience, being a direct act on the part of large masses of people, is far more revolutionary in launching a transformation of the system itself. It is also more elegant and profound in theoretical terms, flowing immediately as it does from La Boétie’s insight about power necessarily resting on popular consent; for then the remedy to power is simply to withdraw that consent…”
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard78.html
Read the rest, it’s pretty good
As to DK’s far flung assumptions full of ad hominems and cosmetic smear jobs, what I copied and pasted reinforced the idea that those who cheer-lead for the Dark Lords of Student Loan Debt are doing a disservice to People. The sooner People recognize this for what it is and gain a new perspective the sooner they can seek a new and better path.
“So what if the jobs that are created are low paying and will remain so for the long term?”
The “so what” is, the loans cannot be paid back at the lower salaries, or without a lower standard of living than otherwise would be the case without having taken the loans in the first place.
“Create your own job!” – often good advice, but one that many People like Chuck are having a problem with:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQscE3Xed64&feature=player_embedded
“Do lawns and windows”, they say, “and you’ll make a fortune!”
Only, that won’t work out too well if Everyone else does it too, especially in a declining economy with falling wages, rising prices and increases in taxes, fees and regulations. It’s not an excuse not to do it, it’s a set of facts to consider. But let’s see if it can be applied here:
https://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/missouri-sends-message-to-feds-34000-to-be-cut-from-unemployment-benefits_04042011
The value of a college education IS in the salary or benefits: the knowledge base acquired which the individual can apply to any particular business opportunity IS only as good as the income it generates and in the current economy that income is often declining, quite unlike an investment in gold and silver.
That was the basis for everything posted – not the status of the messenger, try as some might to drift off in that direction – the idea that borrowing inflated Dollars to go to school is better than investing in gold and silver is a false one.
State Universities, local tech schools, and even some online schools Do Not provide a good education at a reasonable cost, they are over priced.
Here is an example of a reasonable cost:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evJeAAJedbY&feature=player_embedded
Clark: While I am no friend of the views exposed by T and sympathize with the sentiments articulated in your cut and pastes; the reality in America is that the PTB have never relented from their oppression and exploitation of the common man or minorities until there is blood on the streets of America.
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Even recent history bears that out. Your quotes are noble speech and sound good, but every non-violent movement experiences it share of violence. And until there is blood on the streets of America, the PTB believe they can do whatever they want without consequence.
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Blood on the streets has a way of bringing reality home. Especially if its THEIR blood.