Law and order will be the first casualty when the shit hits the fan. Recent historical examples the world over, including New Orleans, Haiti, and Chile show that without policing, looting will become an immediate danger.
The following Guide to Looting When the SHTF by Thomas Northrop of No Bullshit Survival shows that survival and preparedness planning does not include just storing food, supplies, guns, and medicine, or creating tactical defense plans for your home and property. There will be organized gangs, whose sole method of acquiring necessities will be through looting. A friend recently mentioned that when discussing possible collapse scenarios at the water cooler, one of his office coworkers suggested that he would simply take what he needs from other people if it came down to it. Thus the looter mentality is not as isolated as we may think. In all likelihood, this person has already considered what he would do, how he would do it, and how far he was willing to go.
This is a reality, so understanding and accepting it as such is important now – so that you are fully prepared to deal with it if ever confronted by such a situation.
If you’re a law abiding citizen I suggest you don’t read this section. In some historical instances extraordinary measures have been taken against looters during times of crisis. It’s not uncommon in some countries for looters to be shot, either by police, army, or business owners. Some governments will justify the shooting of looters with the excuse of “preventing further damage to the economy”. I suggest you get out of countries that value the economy over your life.
Warnings aside… Let’s get down to business!
What is Looting?
Looting is essentially the act of stealing goods during a catastrophe, riot, war, or natural disaster and can also be referred to as sacking, plundering or pillaging. Looting is almost always opportunistic and usually occurs during a collapse in authority.
Looting can be justified in many ways. Some people may feel that if the goods are not stolen, they will be wasted. Another common belief is that if they don’t steal the goods, it will be stolen by someone else. In the aftermath of a large disaster, these beliefs both hold credence and are good reasons for you to be looting!
Preparing
As with any endeavor, preparation is the key to success. In order to take optimal advantage of a disaster and loot effectively you’ll want to get several things handled ahead of time. The next few pages will cover all the information you need to become a master looter.
Make a Looting Kit
There are a few items that will make looting a lot easier. You’ll want to keep these items ready and on hand for when shit hits the fan. They should be kept together in the location for easy access so you just pick them up and go when it’s time.
Crow bar
The ultimate urban survival tool! A nice, heavy crowbar can be used to break into stores, clear your way through rubble and it can be used as a weapon! Don’t underestimate the crowbar. There are a million things you can do with a crowbar, just use your imagination.
Bump keys
These are keys that have been grinded down in such a way that they can be used to open almost any lock. Bump keys are used by locksmiths and they’re relatively easy to use. A crowbar will get you through any door or window but a bump key will get you through without making a mess.
Laundry bag
A strong, large drawstring bag is a definite must for looting. Laundry bags are great for the purpose of looting. They have a large carrying capacity and when empty they can be folded to fit in your pocket. You can always go for a large backpack, duffle bag or rucksack but they’re cumbersome, expensive and made for looks more then anything else.
A dollar coin or quarter
You may be wondering… a dollar coin or quarter? What the hell for? Well the answer may be a lot simpler then you imagine. The coin is for a shopping cart! Just make sure you get one before the other looters! If you don’t want to use a coin, you can always use the crowbar to break the chains holding them together.
Flash light / Lantern
It’s very likely that if the situation permits looting, the power is probably out. Good luck getting over fallen shelves and getting food in the dark. Looting with one hand will also be difficult but there are a few methods around that. I suggest placing the lantern or flash light in the shopping cart, get a head lamp, or just bring someone along to shine the light and push the cart.
Make a Looting Team
Find several friends or family members and make a plan! It’s all about leverage, you can get a lot more done if your work as team. Get everyone together in a room and discuss a plan of action. Here are the questions you’ll want to have answered:
- Under what circumstances will looting take place?
- Where will the goods be kept?
- Who has a vehicle for transportation?
- What are the best locations for looting?
- Should each individual go to a different store?
- Should everyone go as team?
- What goods have priority?
If each person focuses on acquiring a certain type of item, you’ll collectively save a lot of time and effort. What I mean by this is that one person will collect water filters, one person will collect rice and beans, and the other person will collect fuel. That’s just an example and should be customized to fit your team needs.
Mapping and Creating a List of Target Addresses
Get a detailed map of your city and mark off important looting locations. Make a legend with symbols to represent different types of locations, for instance, use a circle for food stores, triangles for hunting/outdoor stores, squares for hospitals and pharmacies etc. A good resource for finding addresses and locations is Google maps, just type in a store name and Google will give you all the addresses for that store in your area. Copy and paste the results into a .txt file and print it out for future use. This map is extremely important and should be kept in a safe area. The map should be copied and distributed among friends and family. Here’s a list of some locations to keep in mind:
- Hospitals
- Restaurants
- Grocery stores
- Large stores and warehouses
- Police stations
- Fire stations
- Factories
- Shipyards
- Pharmacies
- Liquor stores
- Malls
- People’s houses
- Schools
- Sporting good stores
- Outdoor living stores
- Garden stores
- Hardware stores
- Military / Armory bases
- Gas stations
- Air ports
- Shipping container sites
- Hotels
What to Loot
Some items are important to loot and some aren’t. A wide screen TV for instance will not contribute to your chances of survival. The highest priority should be on food and water but depending on location, finding water may be a problem. Water is too heavy to move around so instead of looting water bottles the focus should be on buckets and water filters. The value of money may be worthless in a disaster situation and therefore should not be a high priority. The most important items to loot are as follows:
- Personal medicine (if required)
- Water filters and water
- Rice
- Dried lentils, legumes, beans
- Salt
- Oatmeal
- Whole wheat flour
- Sugar
- Cooking oil
- Coffee
- Money (preferably in change)
- Alcohol
- Cigarettes
- Energy bars
- Coo laid/ electrolytes
- Fuel/oil
- Places to Avoid
The family run corner stores should be avoided as the owners actually have an interest in the store. The best historical example to illustrate this point occurred during the LA riots… remember Korea town?. Go for the Walmarts and Super stores as the employees could care less about you looting (they have no vested interest in the store).
Looting When Shit Hits the Fan
You have a plan and you know what to do but now we’ll going into the details of what happens next.
It’s my personal belief that violence will not break out in the first stages of a disaster since food and supplies are still in relative abundance and people have what they need to survive. This has been proven during hurricane Katrina and many other disasters. The first few weeks of a disaster should be spent looting and acquiring resources. Everyone in your team should loot the area and acquire as much as a possible. It’s only after several weeks of looting that gangs and groups will have formed and violence will erupt. Fighting will most likely occur over food and resources. All looting from that time on should be executed with extreme caution.
Source: No Bullshit Survival
We will undoubtedly get flack for publishing this “guide,” so to clear things up, we are posting this not so much as an instructional manual for how to loot, but to reiterate the point that there are those, and they are plentiful, who are fully prepared to take what they need at the expense of others.
You may have stereotypes of what a looter looks like and the people they will be traveling with. Stop stereotyping, because the fact of the matter is, that when people are hungry and under extreme stress the line between right and wrong is blurred and very easily crossed, and color or socioeconomic background will not matter.
With respect to the looting guide above, Mr. Northrop’s list of items to loot are, for the most part, necessities. Some might even suggest that instead of looting, we could call it “foraging,” at least when it comes to the essentials. Imagine for a moment that one of your family members has sustained an injury and requires antibiotics. Would you or would you not break into the pharmacy down the street to gain access to Penicillin? The same goes for food. If you’re food stores were wiped out, for whatever reason, and you knew of a train fully loaded with boxes of dry goods, would you or would you not “loot” that train to acquire the much needed food?
Some would argue that abandoned grocery stores, pharmacies, hospitals or distribution centers don’t belong to any one individual, so looting in those areas is not as bad as, say, breaking into someone’s home.
Supplies at those abandoned locations, however, will eventually and likely very quickly, run dry as everyone who hasn’t prepared (probably north of 90% of the population) will be scrambling to get as much food as they can.
You can probably guess what happens next. This is why it is important to prepare right now. The last place you want to be when the SHTF is out with the rest of the looters and foragers. It would be much more preferable to be at home finalizing your defense preparations – doing things like setting up barbed wire, firing lines, booby traps and coordinating with neighbors – because if the disaster event lasts for more than a week without outside resupply, gangs and looters are going to be headed your way next.
Hat tip Tess Pennington
Warnings aside… Let’s get down to business!
What is Looting?
Looting is essentially the act of stealing goods during a catastrophe, riot, war, or natural disaster and can also be referred to as sacking, plundering or pillaging. Looting is almost always opportunistic and usually occurs during a collapse in authority.
Looting can be justified in many ways. Some people may feel that if the goods are not stolen, they will be wasted. Another common belief is that if they don’t steal the goods, it will be stolen by someone else. In the aftermath of a large disaster, these beliefs both hold credence and are good reasons for you to be looting!
Preparing
As with any endeavor, preparation is the key to success. In order to take optimal advantage of a disaster and loot effectively you’ll want to get several things handled ahead of time. The next few pages will cover all the information you need to become a master looter.
Make a Looting Kit
There are a few items that will make looting a lot easier. You’ll want to keep these items ready and on hand for when shit hits the fan. They should be kept together in the location for easy access so you just pick them up and go when it’s time.
Crow bar
The ultimate urban survival tool! A nice, heavy crowbar can be used to break into stores, clear your way through rubble and it can be used as a weapon! Don’t underestimate the crowbar. There are a million things you can do with a crowbar, just use your imagination.
Bump keys
These are keys that have been grinded down in such a way that they can be used to open almost any lock. Bump keys are used by locksmiths and they’re relatively easy to use. A crowbar will get you through any door or window but a bump key will get you through without making a mess.
Laundry bag
A strong, large drawstring bag is a definite must for looting. Laundry bags are great for the purpose of looting. They have a large carrying capacity and when empty they can be folded to fit in your pocket. You can always go for a large backpack, duffle bag or rucksack but they’re cumbersome, expensive and made for looks more then anything else.
A dollar coin or quarter
You may be wondering… a dollar coin or quarter? What the hell for? Well the answer may be a lot simpler then you imagine. The coin is for a shopping cart! Just make sure you get one before the other looters! If you don’t want to use a coin, you can always use the crowbar to break the chains holding them together.
Flash light / Lantern
It’s very likely that if the situation permits looting, the power is probably out. Good luck getting over fallen shelves and getting food in the dark. Looting with one hand will also be difficult but there are a few methods around that. I suggest placing the lantern or flash light in the shopping cart, get a head lamp, or just bring someone along to shine the light and push the cart.
Make a Looting Team
Find several friends or family members and make a plan! It’s all about leverage, you can get a lot more done if your work as team. Get everyone together in a room and discuss a plan of action. Here are the questions you’ll want to have answered:
If each person focuses on acquiring a certain type of item, you’ll collectively save a lot of time and effort. What I mean by this is that one person will collect water filters, one person will collect rice and beans, and the other person will collect fuel. That’s just an example and should be customized to fit your team needs.
Mapping and Creating a List of Target Addresses
Get a detailed map of your city and mark off important looting locations. Make a legend with symbols to represent different types of locations, for instance, use a circle for food stores, triangles for hunting/outdoor stores, squares for hospitals and pharmacies etc. A good resource for finding addresses and locations is Google maps, just type in a store name and Google will give you all the addresses for that store in your area. Copy and paste the results into a .txt file and print it out for future use. This map is extremely important and should be kept in a safe area. The map should be copied and distributed among friends and family. Here’s a list of some locations to keep in mind:
What to Loot
Some items are important to loot and some aren’t. A wide screen TV for instance will not contribute to your chances of survival. The highest priority should be on food and water but depending on location, finding water may be a problem. Water is too heavy to move around so instead of looting water bottles the focus should be on buckets and water filters. The value of money may be worthless in a disaster situation and therefore should not be a high priority. The most important items to loot are as follows:
Places to Avoid
The family run corner stores should be avoided as the owners actually have an interest in the store. The best historical example to illustrate this point occurred during the LA riots… remember Korea town?. Go for the Walmarts and Super stores as the employees could care less about you looting (they have no vested interest in the store).
Looting When Shit Hits the Fan
You have a plan and you know what to do but now we’ll going into the details of what happens next.
It’s my personal belief that violence will not break out in the first stages of a disaster since food and supplies are still in relative abundance and people have what they need to survive. This has been proven during hurricane Katrina and many other disasters. The first few weeks of a disaster should be spent looting and acquiring resources. Everyone in your team should loot the area and acquire as much as a possible. It’s only after several weeks of looting that gangs and groups will have formed and violence will erupt. Fighting will most likely occur over food and resources. All looting from that time on should be executed with extreme caution.
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Mac, I’m not even sure how to respond to this post. My guess is it was written somewhat tongue in cheek….but only somewhat.
Holy SHTF!
I thought this was going to be about anti-looters! I’m wanting to sight in my 44 mag henry in the living room. Charles Bronson comes to mind in more ways than one. He’s been waiting up there all morning waiting for two to line up”. Quigley Down Under.
There are a number of encoded food and drink items in each and every cache of mine that I would definitely not recommend consuming
LOOTERS
there are many people like myself that have been prepped for yrs to survive for yrs. We were smart enough to prep and we’re smart enough to keep people like you from taking our things. Come around my place and when you run into one of my many suprises, you’ll beg someone to shoot you just to relieve the pain.
Sure glad I live in bumfuck no-where Missouri. Looters, around here will stick out like a fat tom turkey with nothing on his mind but hens.
Life expectancy of looters here will be measured in minutes.
However,…friends once asked if we have enough ammo. The answer was we have enough to get more……so it goes.
so by your logic, killing looters is ok since their stealing, but you intend to use your guns to loot as well.they could be in the same boat. id shoot them 2 but just pointing out a fact.
Looters are thieves….shoot em on site
Just cut the labels off all your canned food. Also works as a great practical joke.
If the common man (and woman) must resort to looting for survival it’s obvious that death is not too far away. At some point relatively soon there will be nothing left to loot.
I suggest having some staples in event of any emergency. That is simply prudent. If resupply is not achieved in half a year or so and you don’t live on a farm with Amish skills your toast. If you have a health condition like heart problems that require medication and occasional visits to a physician your toast. If you need electricity, your toast.
If it gets that bad for that long your toast. It’s a Mad Max movie. No thanks.
‘you’re’ or ‘you are’ NOT ‘your’.
I was in the LA Riots in 92, and I can tell you that this guide is pretty dead on. We wanted to shoot looters, but the powers that be wouldn’t allow it. The Korean grocers were the shit, and they and other small businesses did take care of many looters. Civil unrest is a scary thing, even if you are prepared. Don’t be fooled into thinking you are safe just because you have a gun in the house. Many businesses were burned down, and I am sure many of them in south-central LA had a gin the business while it burned. Good luck all.
JJsan
@lostinmissouri “…we have enough to get more”…
How is that NOT looting?? so you condemn them, then admit that its okay for YOU to do?
This point is a year or so late but..
Armyman:
If looters come alooting with weapons and you shoot them
SURPRISE! you just found your self more weapons and likely ammo.
So the fact that the man says he has enough ammo to get more is pretty simple.
Think o u t s i d e the box, that is what sites like this one is for.
Great post, Mac. I’m with all you folks about prepping. I just think you’re all going to look a bit less high-n-mighty when you’ve prepped for years only to realise you’ve forgotten something vital. When that happens, looting is gonna look a lot better. Shoot the looters, but don’t think you’re better than them. Sad, but true.
They aren’t looting so much as just wanting to touch things they would never be able to afford. Celine Dion told me so!
Well it seems to me that you just shit on an otherwise good website….
Comments…..Mac… why do you taunt us? I was feeling so good about my circumstances ,and our situation, having to shoot somebody was the farthest thing from my mind.When it comes right down it, I wont half to loot,However,I will protect and hand out punishment accordingly.
thanx mac. excellent mature idea to publish this. when i was in the ******* we studied enemy tactics over and over again. nothing – absolutely nothing – was more valuable.
“KNOW THE ENEMY AND HE IS YOURS” (SUN TZU)……
Know YOURSELF, and know the enemy BETTER is a tad closer to the truth. 😉
I almost forgot the 1000ft of barbwire – thanks for the post Mac, you’ve may have saved my ass!
I already have 3/4in plywood and 2x4s painted black, fitted and ready to install in an instant on all windows and doors. The attic vent fan will be my way of accessing the roof to see what’s happening and to shoot any looters. 4” holes in exterior walls strategically placed that are camouflaged to look like a dryer vents to view and shoot, plus excess clothes and small appliances to throw in the front yard so it already looks like I’ve been looted.
One thing is for sure… there will be a lot of other places that will be easier to loot or they’ll “Die” trying to get into my place.
I tried to think this through – Call me paranoid or prepared… I prefer the latter!
Comments…..SHROOM!!! maybe you took my comment out of text? sarcasm is only one of the my preferred weapons!!!. Sometimes it works and sometimes it does’t SEMPER FI
Mac makes a good point- many people who are not prepped have a looting mentality and most of them do not need a guide! I think that regardless of how physically (goods, land, etc.) well prepped we may be, we all need to consider how looting would effect us if we haven’t done so yet as a part of our (mental) preps.
I have no interest in looting and have done my very best to avoid any “need” (i.e. antibiotics for an infection, etc.) to do it should things get nasty. And even though I live in Nowheresville I do realize my family and team members may be forced to employ lethal force to protect ourselves if looters came here. I do not look forward to that day.
“Anonymous”, I could think of a couple ways lostinmissouri could get more. Most serious looters will have a weapon or steal a weapon (they will probably have some ammo too). You also will probably have to have a weapon to survive to be able to barter or buy more ammo later.
Comments….. Thanks Mac for the article. I look at this as a “heads up” kinda article. I will shoot looters if necessary, but not out of hate. It’ll be only because my family will come first and I’ve taken the time to prepare. I have had on five occasions to produce a firearm to turn rapidly deteriorating situations around. Thank goodness I did not have to pull the trigger during any of them and for that I am grateful.
time to harden the exterior of your home – security gates, doors, window bars & bump-proof locks.
and make sure your fire extinguishers are loaded and ready
Comments…..here in podunk n.e. mississippi looters will be shot on sight…however, it is good to know by name and reputation the small business guy who operates the mom and pop grocery, drugstore, etc…if there is an emergency need like medicine, food, or what have you and it is midnight or unattainable under dire shtf circumstances, these friends will help you get what you need.. i am very glad that i live far away from heavily populated areas…makes a stranger in our midst stand out like a sore thumb.
Man Up, get a box of small nails to pound through plywood to throw in front of the windows and two steps into the door (facing up). Put some dead chicken juice on them also.
Kevin, you should probably put your purple robe on now with white sneakers and wait for the next astroid. Have some toast.
NO SYMPATHY FOR THE DEVIL
At 28% interest on their credit cards from money created out of thin air and obtained @ 1% from the Fed, ‘looting’ Target is a morally dysfunctional mischaracterizationr. IT’S A F\/<K!N’ REBATE!!!!!!!
Did you read the last paragraph or (and your counter-strategies) Kevin.
They should have put a bulls-eye target in the large O in top pic.
My dog “Cooter” only gets fed twice a week. His mom is the one you have to worry about. They both like raw red meat. Haven’t seen any more rabbits around the garden.
Most of my neighbors are rednecks or military. God loves them & I do too!
I do agree that the first two to six weeks, most people will be able to feed themselves with what ever they have in their cupboards. But I am mainly concerned with the individuals who are of need of alcohol and drugs within the first few weeks when the SHTF. I am of the opinion they are going to do anything to obtain their addictive habits.
Has there been any evidence of looting for alcohol and drugs way before food becomes a necessity in a SHTF scenario?
I bought a few zip up duffle bags and a Camel (water) back pack at my local Army/Navy Surplus last week. All items were about $20 each. You can get a lot of AR’s into a duffle bag, even when they are individually packed in their own padded soft case. Grab a sharpening stone for $2.95 for your knives and bayonets while you’re at it.
Just saying.
Comments…..Just because you live in the country, don’t think that you will not be vulnerable to looters. Quite a few of my neighbors are into drugs. It is important to know who they are and what you plan on doing to defend your position.
This information is good for all preppers. If you have preps, you need to be willing to defend them and your family. If defending means taking a life, you need to be able to deal with that. If you can’t, don’t prep.
Keep on prepping.
You forgot SAPI plates (front and rear) and wound clot dressing kits. Maybe 2 coins instead of one (for your trip over the river Styx).
The most effective looters of all with be those who are in positions of “authority” – such as police and the armed forces. Why? Well, when the population is starving the masses are going to turn against anyone who had the foresight to prepare and stockpile food, fuel, or other necessities. You can bet laws or edicts will be passed that criminalize what they will call “hoarding”. The cops – or whoever is in power that carries guns – will pull up to your home with a warrant giving them the right to take your food for re-distribution to the public.
Of course, the greater part of that “public” will be – you guessed it – themselves.
This is my second greatest fear. I don’t believe the police, military, etc. will retain their “service” mentality when their own welfare and that of their families is in jeapordy. They will do whatever is necessary to survive. My husband says he’ll keep shooting, until he’s dead or out of ammo, anyone at all who tries to rob us. To my mind this will only clear the way for the next group of looters who will inevitably come after the ones he manages to kill.
The greatest threat to the individual’s survival has always been, and will continue to be, “government.”
Witness what atrocities took place all throughout history “in the name of the law”.
Don’t be a sucker for a thug brandishing a badge in any such SHTF situation.
A thief is a thief no matter what costume he drapes himself in or what authority he claims.
What has been, will be. There’s nothing new under the sun.
I read your post and all I can say is that there is a lot of stupid people that have not prepared for this by buying there own stuff. Thanks for educating a potential looter how to form a group and to be more effective and successful in ripping of the folks that took time to prepare. Please add to the list that they should bring their wife and kids with them to loot I may as well kill everyone in their family all at once instead of tracking them down to prevent there revenge strike!
Ed, looking forward to killing a family?! youre a wack job. the world would be a better place if you choked on your MRE!
you think so? (obviously!)
Remember this…when tshtf…all the rules go out the door.
The only law that applies is the “Law of the Jungle”. Period.
Anybody ever heard of asking amoung good friends for things they need and trading. I have a simple rule. If you come to ask , we’ll talk and trade. If you come to take, I’ll shoot (etc.)and you’ll scream and die.
Has anyone entertained the thought of bugging out of a high risk area in an event like the above? Obviously under these conditions you will not have electrical power with any reliability or groceries. Take the food and electricity away and civilization becomes downright uncivilized. No fortress survives for long. You have to sleep sometime.
Get a used camper, act (or become) religious and get to the bible belt; distance yourself from concentrations of people. Basically get far away from cement and closer to dirt.
bible belt? my kids go to a Christian school. Parents get on edge when parking spaces become unavailable, how would these same parents act when food/water become scarce?
“Mad Max” was a science fiction movie. In all likelihood, if a dollar collapse comes, what we will experience is the sort of turmoil that Argentina went through in 2001.
Ferfal’s blog “Surviving in Argentina” is good reading if you want a realistic picture of how bad it gets.
The short version: Not “Mad Max” but very likely “We don’t need no stinkin’ batches.”
Comments…..
CAUTION: SOME OF THIS FOOD IS ‘COMPROMISED’….I KNOW WHICH BUCKETS…WHICH CANNED GOODS….EVEN THE JUICES IN THE JARS AND THE PEANUT BUTTER…WANTA CHANCE IT??? MAKE MY DAY!!!
Comments…..
Cyber-Samurai
April 21st, 2011 at 1:50 pm
Care to share with us what you think we forgot??
Survival of the Fittest, he who lives, wins.
Love this post as it provides new ideas on possible targets. Listen folks, your supplies will only last for awhile (on avg.). Not talking about you super preppers who have 100 acres with landmines and stuff, I am talking about average 1 yr. of supply folks. I just wish I had a small team to work with on resupplying via these targets.
In the event of an EMP/CME you will need to hit these targets early as they will be sponged up in a matter of the 1st few weeks.
Ah lastly – get yourself some bump keys NOW and add these to your supplies. Learn how to use these as they will become a lifesaver down the road, even for those who plan to bug out. You will need to get into a place quick and without drawing attention to yourself.
I think “Cooter” knows that he can jump that white picket fence, but he hasn’t yet. His mom “Bitch” knows that she could in her better days. I’ve got the signs posted on all four corners of the trailer house. Cooter even knows to spit out the heart worm pills that I tried hiding in the hot dogs. Damn vet, I bought a muzzle for Cooter & he still won’t stich up his wounds after that last incident with the poodle in the lobby.
I heard this quote the other day, concerning bugging out in the US:
“The problem with America is 150 million walking guns. When the game runs out, they will eat each other.”
Chuckles, loved your Celene Dion comment. I remember her “LET THEM TOUCH THOSE THINGS” Katrina rant well.
Mac, thanks for posting this and also for hosting this site. I’m a new poster here, but I’ve been following this site for months.
I purchased some acreage last Fall and am now weeks away from being able to move into my brand new home. The house is situated on a ridge 400+ feet from the county road, so I’m not at all concerned about looters who try to approach during the daytime. My question is: I can’t be vigilant 24×7. What do you folks recommend as an interim measure to protect my garden and house until the time comes to hunker down and put up barbed wire? Get a watch dog or two?
Not my favorite Mac but I respect where you are coming from. I will not look at my crowbar again the same way. How long you think all those looted supplies will hold out anyway? Good land, water and a seed stash … far from the maddening crowds/golden hoards. Thinking to sell the PM’s and buy lots more ammo… looters vs shooters. Can’t we all just get along? Peace brothers & sisters
Punji pit sticks are cheaper Scott. What is EMP? I don’t have public electricity, pv’s are working with neighbors air card and back up Lister generator running off off of used car oil & french fry oil. Paid small farm, smoke house & garden work just fine.
Get a Northern Tool motion sensor that turns on a buzzer/night camera instead of a light.
The worse thing about what is happening is that so many people are soooo fearful. That is what will be the final nail in coffin to the US; fear.
This is why the U.S. is a failed state and will not make it. People are so fearful, they won’t even do what is necessary to get rid of the problem that has started this. If people are looting the nation, for an international Trans-Atlantic Cartel, then you need to stop it. But everyone is too SCARED.
Americans are SCARED about everything, even though our country has been the aggressor these last few years. they are scared of their neighbors, scared of the government (so they let the TSA perverts feel their wives and daughter up at the airports with no complaint), they are SCARED of this, they are SCARED OF that….
Such a cowardly nation this has turned into.
Well, what the hell did you all think all those weapons and the 1000″s of rounds for each were for……….game on
Here in Colorado, we have the ‘Make my Day’ law…..anyone trying to
break into the home= BLAMMO! Dead, all nice and legal. Truth be
told, I’m an Ex-Marine, and, honestly, I can’t wait till some of these
mo-fo’s try to break into my home. I will literally stack their bodies
outside in a ditch, like cordwood.
you are a very scary man im glad i have prepared so i dont have to be killed by u
In an extended New Orleans type situation there would surely be plenty of this activity attempted. When the would-be victims shoot back (or band together and set up ambushes), many of the looter wannabees will figure out something else. There would be some hard core types, but most will quickly realize that the retirement plan that accompanies this business really sucks.
Rural dwellers may find an advantage in their setting in that these people can help with the garden next year (as fertilizer). Ferfal notes that rural areas offer the chance for siege warfare on homes, but I suspect that every type of dwelling area will pose challenges.
Mad Max on a nationwide scale is probably not likely except in an EMP situation or major natural disaster (We will not get to watch all disasters on TV. Sooner or later others will watch our crisis unfold on TV). I hope all we have to face is a long grind such as the USSR or Argentina. I would expect the same situation in USA to be bloodier, as our “diversity” works against us.
Pull off to the side of the road Okie.
There is a lot of good information here, we should share more with one another as we are very like minded. We are a very small percentage of the population as most do not think like we do and some that do, do nothing anyway.
I will post some things I have done and or accumulated, I encourage others to do so as well.
I found a great deal on survival food for 90 days in a 5 gallon bucket on Costco.com for about $90. all you need is a heat source and water. I just looked and they do not have the one I bought & have probably sold out of them. but it’s a sealed bucket and lasts for years. The company that makes it is called “Food for Health”
This company also has a sealed pack of NON Hybrid Seeds for appx $50. this can yield an acre of food, this is good to have a a back up and has a good shelf life.
I also keep a survival backpack in my truck has everything you need for 2 people for 3 days if the SHTF and you are not at or near home. http://cgi.ebay.com/Deluxe-Backpack-Emergency-Survival-Kit-2-Person-NEW-/280501920970?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item414f37a4ca
We recently purchased alternate communication devices as well but, I will post other thoughts as well once I see others participating.
Does anyone have a comprehensive checklist?
-Rev
Suggest you all read ” One Second After”….it’s all coming down!
Anonymous- you crack me up with the movie lines in your comments. Not sure if all here “get them” but having seen a few thousand movies myself, they are hilarious! Now, in dealing with looters it requires a paraphrase of what John Wayne said
“mister you caused a lot of trouble…but I won’t shoot you…I won’t shoot you…the hell I won’t!”
Kevin-you forgot one: If you’re a piece of bread popping up from the toaster, you’re toast!
Keep putting up this type of reality Mac….people who get offended by this type of thing are not ready for the STHTF and most likely wont make it through any situation that arises.
Im in good shape as Ive said here before,I dont really “prep” I live it.
But if someone thinks they can just waltz in an take whats mine just because they want to then they most likely wont be waltzing away,hope it never comes to that but thats their choice not mine.
I think theres also a difference in a person “rooting” around through a place looking for food and supplies in abandoned or burned out buildings,cars, trains ect and busting into your house/barn/store to steal your supplies or hurt you and family….I mean in a disaster where many or even most people die or flee to another area I dont think a person could realisticly be faulted for digging through the remains to eat or just to see what he can find to use…we could all find ourselves in that situation.
I certainly wouldnt intentionally steal anothers supplies and Id hate to be shot for picking my way through a wreaked truck or building where theres no real chance the “owners” either survived or will be back.
I know I would hate to kill a man just trying to eat….wont hesitate to if hes just looking for trouble…I think we have to learn to weigh things carefully and be ready to shoot on a moments notice but also ready to show some mercy and understanding,(not blind and retarded trust,thatll get you killed)and to make sure that our God given humanity doesnt die with the economy….I hope that makes sense to someone…thanks.
OPSEC Cake Recipe: 1 cup secrecy, 2 cups subterfuge, 1 tsp paranoia. Mix all ingredients together while holding mouth shut. Bake til entire cake disappears…
Has anyone here given careful consideration to this possible scenario?–Say the worst has happened. You are now in the early days of REAL shtf. Hunkered down at home, fully prepped, reasonably safe and sound with 12 very reliable friends/relatives. Now, your 13th best friend comes knocking, asking for food for his starving kids. You didn’t include him in the group because he wasn’t a prepper, wasn’t quite reliable or soforth.
But, once, in the previous peaceful times he had accidently discovered your stash. You let your guard down for just a minute and let him help you unload the 800 cases of toilet paper because he came by to visit just as you returned from the store. At the time he thought you were a little nutty but now shtf is upon us and he’s desperate and at your door.
Do you 1: take him in? (he’s got a wife and 4 kids and none of them have any useful skills) 2:give what you can and send him away? (knowing he’ll be back repeatedly) or 3: turn him down the first time? Remember, whenever you tell him no (whether it’s his first or tenth time) you have just turned him into an enemy. In his mind you are intentionally starving his kids. He now hates you more passionately than he ever liked you before. And he WILL be back. Probably with some newfound friends that he’s told all about your stash. What do you do?
It’s a tough question and I don’t know the answer. The point is HE KNOWS what you have. And you could have prevented this predicament. You let your operational security slip, just once, and it was months ago. But now you have a problem. Your group may be able to stand them off, maybe even kill them all, but you’ll probably take some casualties doing it–and it could have been prevented!
My personal requirements before I reveal anything about what I have or my future plans are these: Is this person already a prepper? Not necessarily gung ho about it but at least aware of events and doing some things to get ready? Can you be absolutely sure they won’t reveal info to ANYONE? Even a spouse? Would you trust this person with your life? If the answer to any of this is NO, then they are outside my opsec zone.
Nobody wants to live in total paranoia, but if you are serious about surviving, and IF the s really does htf, please remember that your commitment to OPSEC today may very well save some lives in the future. If you are not serious about secrecy then don’t waste your time and money prepping for anything. You’ll just be another target for the looters.
One final note- I’m not convinced we will ever see a total breakdown of society. At least not in our lifetimes. I lean more towards a slow decline than a sudden collapse. But the mere possibility of fast crash/shtf means I keep a very low profile. I’d love to hear your ideas about how you do it. Thanks, Okie
Mack; Get a dog! I recommend a Karelian Bear Dog. Check them out…wikipedia has a very good article. Wonderful family dog and protector…intelligent, alert, athletic, and healthy. My female is 2 1/2 and a source of great joy…and living out in the country, confidence! Of course sidearms, etc., add to that!
An folks, don’t forget your four-footed companions when prepping!!!
With all due respect to the many voices here stating they believe “There won’t be a sudden collapse” or “death by a 1000 cuts” other then the fact you are simply sharing your palpable optimism & hope, what evidence are you basing this one?
IF you are basing this on the simple fact that America is the world’s #1 economy, you are correct…We have been and still are. If you are basing this on the fact that we have the world’s most feared armed forces, that is also true. Or maybe you’re basing it on the fact that our currency is the World’s Reserve, and never in history has such a plight befallen a WORLD Empire…If any/all of that fits your bill, then forgive me, but you suffer from a combination of Cognitive Dissonance and Normalcy Bias.
I’m not hoping or rooting for a sudden collapse…But I find it odd how quickly many in forums like this are quick to point out their belief “that such a collapse is unlikely..”
-America is a fraud, propped up by the illusion of wealth, funded mostly by debt…
-Her military is currently embattled in 3 distinct theatres in Africa, the Middle East & SW Asia.
-She is bankrupt (and has been for sometime) and is now limping along sucking on gas fumes just hoping her elected legislature will buy her another 4 weeks by once again, ignoring the Constitutional mandate regarding Federal debt limits.
-Both her annual deficits ($1.7 Trillion) and quantity of new Federal Reserve Notes floated into circulation via QE1&2 ($1.6 Trillion) are larger then all but 9 other countries individual GDP in 2010. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)
-Almost 50 million of her 300 million residents cannot afford to feed themselves without government subsidies.
-The 2nd largest procurer of her weekly Bond issuances (Japan) will not only cease their purchase program, but will move into a net seller position as they attempt to raise emergency capital to deal with their on-going crisis.
-China & Russia have openly agreed to trade in their own currencies (sending a loud shot across the bow of the dollar).
-S&P, not wanting to be the last one to the pile on this time, has formally put Her on notice that they no longer believe she can sustain her current financial affairs, and issued a passive slap/threat that they might not maintain their envied AAA status much longer.
-41 of her 50 states are on the verge of bankruptcy. http://freedomarizona.wordpress.com/2009/01/30/46-of-50-states-could-file-bankruptcy-in-2009-2010/ (and there are 100’s of Municipalities suffering the same fate).
-Her stock markets have been falsely propped up by the Plunge Protection team since the crash of 2008 (via a free-flowing current of new FRN’s from the Federal Reserve).
-Worldwide food shortage only exaccerbated by the rampant inflation injected.
…Must I go on??
Bottom line, I love your hope, your optimism, your “glass is half full” attitudes. Please don’t mistake me as a pessimist or doomer, but blind optimism veiled as hope when based on Cognitive Dissonance or the Normalcy Bias should be correctly diagnosed for what it is…Misleading.
The Red, White & Blue has been immune to discussions like this for two centuries, but don’t rely SOLELY on that when you share belief with others that “I lean more towards a slow decline than a sudden collapse” without first offering an exhaustive list as to why (similar to the one above, but in support of your hypothesis).
In these dangerous & trying times, rather then placating me & others with positive spin…best to stick as close to the truth as possible. And IMO (based on what I’ve shared above) American is at the tipping point…A precipice, and it won’t take more then a stiff breeze to send her over the edge. The only remaining question left is when will that moment be convenient for TPTB.
-Dad
Well said. Sounds like you have an education. So I put your question to you -Dad, when will it be convenient for TPTB?
Soonish?
GREAT post, dad! the huge question of the day is WHEN will TSHTF?
Mick asked, “…What do you folks recommend as an interim measure to protect my garden and house…”
Moats – mucky sloppy ones – Not the stereotype ones around a castle, just a small bit of water (maybe from a gray water line?) with some muck, the thicker the better, and or small to medium thorny trees spaced close together. As a result, get away cars are likely forced to come down the front road and looters on foot don’t fair well unless they do too.
Then add some electronic security and a good gate as a topping.
Dogs are good, but dogs get poisoned (hungry ones are the easiest) and can be expensive to upkeep.
A good secondary battery-free backup alarm might be a peacock, or so I’ve read. But that does you no good if you’re not there, a lot like dogs in that way and they can be poisoned too,… or eaten by birds of prey and such.
It doesn’t seem like this is a thread about the Golden Hoard or the Coco-puffers so much as it’s a thread about People who are planners, and some of them are smart.
As practice, lock yourself out of the house and see how easy it is for you to get in. Of course you’re hoping the looters don’t have a cordless sawzall or sledgehammers and go through the walls like many People have experienced.
Some People say when SHTF it won’t be like Mad Max but rather it will be like Argentina.
Well, I’ve read all about Argentina, and if you ask me Argentina Was like Mad Max, especially the first film in the series, that version was very very true to life in a sort of Deliverance kind of way.
Beyond Thunderdome, not-so-much.
I found this website to be a good description of Katrina:
LISTENING TO KATRINA
http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/blogs/klessons/index.html
I especially liked his acronym H.Y.S.T. but of course that makes it all the easier for the looters.
Rock meet hard place.
@ SmokinOkie:
If none of the neighbor/friend family has any useful skills, how long would they last at best with 2, 3, or 4 kids? How much of a risk would it really be to send them off with nothing? They might tell someone else, but other preppers will likely send any unknown beggars on their way before the family gets to the blabbing point. Unless you took them under your wing, you’re just lengthening their misery by giving a little aid.
If the friend/neighbor is skilled but only prepped in a minor way, could you give them aid in the form of getting them set up somewhere close, if possible? Or, in your view, is anyone else except the well-prepped a competitor for foraging or other resources? Perhaps they would be a risk no matter what if they would be easily defeated by a looting party that your group could handle but they couldn’t.
The answers may change with the nature of the SHTF event. The invariant would probably be your response to the clueless and unskilled. If they really are useless at that point, why waste the energy or resources on them? You can’t save everybody, and just like in normal times, some people simply cannot be helped no matter how many resources you throw at them. That would be the difference between charity and plain foolishness on the part of the giver.
Okie, Dave’s not here man.
Don’t forget to hit up your local Veterans Med Office – they are every where an they are small unguarded no alarms privately owned , no security and loaded with tons drugs meds, surgical gear, and sterile bandages! No Guns usually! Easy Targets!
So, how many of you are mentaly ready to shoot someone? How many of you have actually drawn down on someone without having to fire? This is a question for ALL gun owners because it isn’t as easy as you may think. I know because I have had to. Fortunatly for the “looters” thieves, they saw fit to heed my warnings and lay down rather than feel what the business end of a shotgun feels like. Was I ready to pull the trigger? Yes. Did I want to? No. I never thought I would ever be in a situation where I would have to confront some POS but low and behold, I was. Me and my family or them and it was going to be them. Andreniline rush like you can’t believe. Some can handle it but others cannot. So my question to all of you again, are you really ready to shoot someone?
Gee whiz, and I thought this article was a metaphor of what the Government, (the Corporations) has been doing to us, all along.
Hasn’t “looting” become the primary objective of the U.S Military, i.e. “organized gangs” around the world?
AZ Ready, my answer to you is yes, yes & yes. I have no qualms about defending my life. My family depends on me. Want to go further? Every day is like icing on the cake. I look forward to qualifying every other month with a different weapon.
Mr. Cogburn how many men have you shot since you became a marshal, … Goudy: Oh, let’s restrict it to “killed” so we may have a manageable figure.
Yes, but they were all bad.
That book,, “One Second After”..I have been on a waiting list to borrow this book or audio book from my library..over 2 months..
seems there isnt enough copies to go around in my very small community..
things that make you go , …hummm
I have read “One Second After”…very poignant and also and excellent “primer”. Pay close attention and have a hiliter at hand as you read it.
Commen
In a time when almost fifty percent of the American populous is on some form of Government assistance, how could there not be excessive looting. We have bred an era of the entitlement mentality. Have as much as you can think of on hand. Your best planning aside when the SHTF anything goes.
@AZ..ready…yes…
prepped..yes..
have i ever had to, No.
and i really hope it stays that way, but if not..I will protect what is mine and who I hold dear.
Im already conditioned, from other events in my past.(PTSD? I dont know, maybe).so I pitty the fool who thinks whats mine , can be his.
I wont even see a face, just a threat.
it will come down to a mind set of self preservation, and in the Human Animal of most , that is a very strong primal instinct
I know what you were thinking, was that five shots or six? In all this excitment I kinda lost count myself. Do you feel lucky, well do you punk? I gots to know….
I always try to be ready. Was your revolver loaded and cocked? Well, a gun that’s unloaded and cocked ain’t any good.
Okie-
You have posed an interesting scenario, one that could happen whether someone knows you have preps or not. In hard times, people will reach out to their family and friends asking for some assistance “just this once if you have ANYTHING you can spare”, so I feel confident that in a shtf situation when people are desperate for their lives we will see this behavior regardless of knowledge of preps.
I do not know the answer to your proposed scenario either, but I have some ideas I will keep to myself for now until I think them through more.
As for my OPSEC and preps and how I do it…
I am annonymous here, and even if someone tracked me down using the internet so they could come steal my preps later on, well, they won’t be finding me “here”. The people who know about my preps are involved in them and making preps too (redundancy is a good thing!). Some people who have asked me about prepping usually just get a shrug along with, “Well, we have like 5 gallons of water so we can flush the toilet for a while and a few candles somewhere if the power goes out.” I do not reveal to anyone that I have anything of substance unless they reveal something that hints at their being a prepper first. It is very much a chess game until trust is earned and I tend to sit on the side of paranoia/distrust when it comes to my preps. Even the people I trust very very much do not know about everything, just in case.
I am very open about the fact that I enjoy my guns and the belief that my home is my castle and have been quoted as saying, “God help the fool who even considers breaking into my home. Between the dogs and me, I just don’t recommend it.” I have seriously trained my dogs, they love their work, and they are unbelievably loyal partners. In a shtf scenario I have plans to utilize force multipliers and many other tactics, but that is for another conversation.
Simply, I am untrusting about sharing my preps with anyone who I think does not have their head out of their keester and I don’t make it easy to approach. I do not know if things are going to fall apart quickly or slowly (hello current stagflation, protesting, and general unrest) but I am going to do my best to be as self sufficient and prepped whatever the case.
Comments…..
More facts that make you go..hmmmm.
I read Wednesday on a prepper blog a resolution that (long story short)mandated the govt was responsible for providing food for TWO years for EVERY household in this nation in case of a NATIONAL EMERGENCY—-
Reality for those lurkers coming here for facts and survival information????….the govt isn’t prepared to give your family a loaf of bread every month.
This information does correlate with info. printed a year ago—the silos of wheat and corn are empty and have been for years.
Prep more; pray to do the right thing. We can’t choose who lives—that’s not our job description.
Hi, its been a while since my last posting. Things in Greece are decaying and we just expect the “when” rather than the “if”.
A good friend took the family and returned to his roots. The village is an hour drive from Heraklion, and he created a good hideout. A small house, a garden, some olive trees, chickens, pigs, water, etc.
He also told me that he bought a benelli shotgun for “just in case”.
He is certain that as soon as shtf, city people will flee to the country seeking for food. So he must protect the property and the family.
So i asked him: What if me and my family drive begging for some food. Are you going to shoot us?
No answer in this.
I guess he felt embarassed, but sooner or later he will have to deal with some similar problem.
This looks like one of those subjects that’s going to one hundred rants.
I gots to know…… CLICK!
How fast do you run the hundred? Get off of my yard…..
I think you can successfully bug out – ONLY – if you are early. For all of you bug out folks: Where are you going? I’ve read in the past that a few of you are going to BLM land or “out to the desert”. How does that work? What about your food, water, security? There will be none in those places.
In terms of defending your home out in the sticks: I respect what FerFal says…but you shouldn’t intend on having just a few people on your country property / house. Plan on about a dozen. All armed.
There is also a lot of talk about roving motorcycle gangs. Dangerous, mobile, gang-like. Some say: “invincible!” I don’t think so. JWR on Survivalblog talks a lot about this. I don’t know about you, but the definition of “being exposed” is while you are riding your motorcycle. If roving motorcycle gangs become a known threat, I guarantee you their herd will be thinned in no time and with little trouble.
My last comment is really a question: How many of you “bug-out” folks have made pre-plans on where to go? Are you going to relatives, friends, acquaintances? Do you have enough gas to get there even if that means sitting in traffic and moving 2 miles every one to two hours?
I hope nothing like this ever happens. I do know that I am very thankful that we don’t live in a big city.
Big City: But-out! Early and with haste.
Suburbia: Stay put. Strength in numbers with neighbors. Be prepped so you don’t have to go anywhere.
Countryside: Stay put. Mutual assistance with neighbors. Be prepped so you don’t have to go anywhere.
So interesting, I noticed in Japan’s recent dissaster there were not any stories on looting of stores and stuff, for food or TV’s. Yet If my family needed food or medicine I would do what I had to do. I guess at some point you can justify how low the morales you were taught can go away. Insurance will pay back the losses for a grocery stores loss in what you stole. They will actually report a bigger loss and make more than what was taken. In my life I have returned 2 wallets I have found, however now I question if I an idiot or just a person with a obligition to do what is right. When I lost my wallet it was not returned. Karma is an odd thing. At some point I guess you can justify what you need to do now vs what is the right thing to do at this point in life Japan people seems more cool than us on respecting other’s people’s stuff
in some cases TShasHTF….be careful of where you go..and who is around you..
some places and some types you just dont want to be in the same room with..
heck in some cases food..or fast food places lately have been very very violent..there was another video of spring breakers in a BurgerKing..this time it was Mc D’s
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ec0_1303444048
even if you dont think you need to be armed in public..this should open your eyes, they nearly..or for all I know could have killed this person
You need to take it up another notch above the military. I figured you for a needler European American.
Comments….. There is always the flip side to the story. The above posters have pretty much covered that side. If we as preppers went to all the trouble and cost to accumulate supplies, we aren’t going to just watch someone take them without a fight. With the coming “mad max” scenerios, there will be many new situations come up. But one thing never changes. The sheeple will expect the government to feed them. When that runs out, and it will, they will start a rampage to find supplies. Then, it’s the battle of the wills. Who wants it more, and so on.
if you don’t have weapons as part of your stash, you better get some quick. enough said. good luck…
Ok. Here’s what I want you to bring along while looting; any gold or silver you may own, your car keys (especially if it’s a nice car), valuable hand tools and knives etc., any first aid supplies you have left, and one body bag for each of your looting party. Thank you.
Oh, if only there was more time left before shtf. I could watch the Gilligans Island marathon AGAIN! But since there probably isnt…
yourdaddy- in all honesty, I don’t have any rational support for being a “slow collapse” believer. I’ve thought it through many times and I can’t intellectually defend it(based on the economic and political/social events now happening) So, I’ll admit it is more normalcy bias or emotionally driven than anything else. And of course, I don’t deny the possibility of fast crash- that’s my greater motivation for prepping. I think the timing is the main stumbling block for me (and maybe lots of others). If we believe a CRASH is coming at some future point, And I do, then we do whatever we can to prepare. It’s just the uncertainty of when “some future point” is that confounds me. Is it this year? next year? 5 yrs? Should I be more motivated to prep faster? Is there a certain trigger that undeniably means shtf is here? I just don’t know. So I trudge onward, doing what I can day to day. Knowing that real SHTF can happen at any time and knowing that we’re already well into the slow collapse for the past several yrs.
I’m with Ed,
Ginger is higher maintenance. I like that.
I can think of a lot of places that taking this advice will get you killed. Namely the Virginias, the Carolinas, Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas, Texas, Arizona, Idaho, Montana, E. Oregon, E. Washington, Nevada & Florida & New Mexico. I’ve never traveled the middle states but I suspect they’re much the same, especially the Dakotas & Wyoming which have a well established gun culture for recreation, self defense & hunting.
Looters wanting to stay alive should stick to the classic liberal haunts, where the ownership of guns has been made more difficult through legislation, namely Boston, NY & NJ, coastal California, Washington DC, Portland, Seattle, etc…
Looters who disregard my valuable advice would find their careers short lived.
I ride a mc. Roads are hardly fit to ride, if they didn’t fix them, (if THAT is what you call it), imagine what it would be like after 2 winters no fixin’.
Mad Max 2.0 = ATV’s
That’s OK, I got the last in-line 6 🙂
But Mary Ann is much cuter, she’s got that wholesome girl-next-door appeal. Plus she bakes a mean coconut pie!
Okie…That one is easy…invite them in…the whole family…then slaughter and eat them…well perhaps feed them to the pigs or dogs or something…at least use them as composte.. If they are totally useless, and are a security threat anyway that is their only value and the only solution your group needs. It has to survive and secrecy is critical. If your freeloading friends have some redeeming qualities or skills and you have extra supplies, perhaps you keep em..alive and in your custody/”care and protection”. That is the only true security, the secret cannot leave your compound. Please remember, even the ignorant or unskilled have value. In a SHTF situation, there will be no powertools or labor saving equipment…they can dig a garden and tend it..they can be used to pull plows in the fields and to pick the crops, and to stand guard duty. Grunt labor has value too…of course you have re-invented slavery in that situation.
Someone else posted..can you pull a gun and really shoot somebody…yes…easy if you are a bit of a sociopath or psychopath to begin with it could even be fun..can I sleep well with the idea? Yes… shooting a person is no more difficult than killing a roach, just dehumanize them mentally first. Back in Viet Nam, when using a 50 cal MG on moving targets,you never shot at the people, you destroyed military equipment like shirts or belt buckles or helmets, the people just got in the way. As for supplies…easy..have many many little rabbit holes all over the place…sure the wolves may find some of them…but a tricky and quiet little rabbit will still have enough carrots left over to be fat and happy.
Another poster wanted advice on security…simple and cheap..trip wires and tin cans with a marble or stone inside..plus a little lapdog..one with big ears that stand up. they are cheap to feed, and control. You do not let the yap-hound or as I like to call em a doorbell dog get out loose..their job is to be awake while you rest. With a little training, they will point the direction of the intruder for you..then have a scope on your rifle, a starlight scope and the balls to pull the trigger..When the SHTF, if you leave their corpse in the middle of the driveway near the road in plain site, it will deter tresspassers too..plus if torn up properly it will be too ickky for most people to want to step over and will also draw birds, wild pigs wild dogs and other sources of protein for you to hunt…make use of everything people give you…even a corpse has uses..
I also have no real reason to hope for a slow descent other that that a worst case scenerio is only one possibility. That said, a relatively small event can easily spiral out of control. Look at NO in 2005. They all knew that outside help was coming but many took advantage of the situation to rob others or were too lazy to make the effort to keep themselves alive and found it easier to try to prey on others. It is worth noting that even renegade cops avoided armed victims.
All of us would do whatever was necessary in a dire emergency. A big problem is that some (many) of us define a dire emergency as having to carry our own weight. These same slobs are the ones who always have an excuse to not get a job. I personally feel for anyone who genuinely has back problems because a “bad back” is a favorite excuse for laziness and I am sure it is maddening to be painted with that brush.
I would recommend avoiding trying to loot places like Wal-mart, et al because looters will be fighting each other over the goodies. This is reason enough to have my own supplies. In a scene like in “death of the dollar” places like grocery stores will become a madhouse that could easily devolve into chaos.
Taking supplies from others would be a high-risk occupation and result in a much shortened life span. You would have to bear in mind that you have to win every encounter, but the other side only has to win once. A good analogy is that in baseball a shutout is uncommon.
In an event of a large scale a culling would surely occur. Without mechanized farming and distribution we cannot all be fed
Hey Mac, you need to add a sequel to this article, titled
“How to quickly dispose of dead looters”. God pity those bitches around our place, there won’t be any pity for them here. A 147 grain steel core at 500meters oughta do it.
Thank you for the article, it was very entertaining and informative :). Keep it up with the posts, I’ll be checking back in!
I’m not with Ed.
Comments…..The only reason guv’mnt makes any attempt to care for or protect citizens during an emergency is political perception of said guv’mnt by it’s citizens. During a major collapse political opinions of the populous will rapidly lose importance for elites. In direct correlation with this loss of concern for the population’s political opinion will be loss of concern for the population’s welfare.
Remember, the biggest reason elites have for intentional collapse and ensuing chaos is an 80% reduction in population. The Bible says 66% of the world’s population will die in the 7yr tribulation. Either way we are in for some trying times. I would submit to you, dear reader, that while prepping is a wise precaution it will not be enough. The Lord Jesus in your heart and the full armor of God on your soul will be the only true body armor.
DEVIL DOG
We sniff after the survivors of caravans.
We reap bloody crops on war fields.
No meat of any corpse deprives our lean bellies.
Hunger drives us on scented winds.
Stranger, traveler,
peer into our eyes & translate
the horrible barking of ancient dogs
The artists of Hell…
Fly over
the terrible landscape,
where citizens find anxious pleasure
preyed upon by savage bands of youths
I can’t believe this is happening
I can’t believe all these people
are sniffing each other
& backing away
teeth grinning
hair raised, growling, here in
the slaughtered wind
I am ghost killer.
witnessing to all
my blessed sanction
This is it
no more fun
the death of all joy
has come.
Others have said it and it bears repeating endlessly. OPSEC, first, last and always.
Early warning devices and obstacles: Get a small yapper dog that is afraid of things that go bump in the night. Large dogs are just large targets. Barb wire and other obstacles are only as good as their overwatches. They only slow the enemies advance. Armed guards are absolutely needed to halt the advance.
——————————–
Good reason for this article: Know your enemy. Looters are not just thieves, but like rats they foul what they leave behind.
There was a time when a community was managed by the meritocracy aka the businessmen. They hired the sherrif, the mayor and the judge. They used every device to protect commerce and commerce demanded protecting property rights including those of the consumer. Were there abuses? Of course. So are there more abuses under the current system of those who have-not having equal say in community affairs? Decide for yourself.
——————————-
Here is a bit of intel for those of you who imagine “Mad Max” scenarios. The vast majority of people will never leave their current operating environment. Currently over 50% of the world populace lives in urban areas. 35% of Americans have never left their hometown. 65% have never left their home state. Roughly 50% of Americans live within 50 miles of where they were born.
Mass exodus to the boonies? Uh-huh. Just what skill-set do you have? Tools and supplies? With a crash of the population, there will be no shortage of tools. Just what supplies will you have valuable enough to be welcomed into a rural community? Survival success absolutely demands a wide skill-set. This is the only mechanism for adaptability. Failure to adapt to an ever-changing envirnoment results in game over.
Work diligently and you just might gain your just rewards. Failure is NOT an option. Never accept looting as a valid survival strategy. Always defend private property rights.
Your security system (obstacle) is only as good as the armed guards who watch over it. So what’cha gonna do when you see someone with a crowbar?
I believe the first “looters” that should be shot are the ones that are causing this mess to begin with. High level politicians, attorneys, bankers, activists, labor thugs, elite and alike should get no mercy if the SHTF. They are causing the demise so toast em! This will send a very loud message to anyone that wishes to lead after things settle down that you WILL play by the rules or else.
I disagree with Ed only in that tracking down the home base of a looter would be difficult and probably not worth the effort. Revenge is certainly possible, but the biggest threat would probably come from other looters in the pack and with luck the pack could be neutralized in one engagement. Survivors would be more likely to question the wisdom of future raids.
In my part of the world long range engagements would be unlikely.
Many of would like to take revenge on TPTB but the ones who would have the best chance would be their own underlings. Once they realized that shtf was for real they would realize that there is no real use for “the masters”. Why wait for them to throw table scraps when you could dine at the “the master’s” table (wife?) yourself?
Looters, unemployment, or shortage of food supply are products of CORRUPTION. AND AN END TO CIVILIZATION.
History repeats itself. Learn about 1917 Russia’s year of revolution or Color Revolutions in other countries, including Asia. Millions of middle class citizens were stripped to poverty due to food shortages or were killed by a new ruling class.
____________________
But all in the name of “Class Warfare.”, it actually TRANSFERED FROM a large group of middle class citizens INTO the hands of just a few “SUPER RICH”.
The Republicans and conservative talking heads are so naive in trying to sell Liberal’s agenda which is “a redistribution of wealth.”
But it NEVER was a distribution of wealth, in reality it was just a transfer from many middle class citizens to a few rich ones who now became “the super rich”.
Seems people pretty much follow suit. One site speaks of the preppers being out of touch. The preppers speak of the sheep paying no attention. One of the preppers, buys gold, the rest do likewise. O prep per decides to hold up in his house the others do like wise. They must think this hole mess will blow over in a while. I bet they are out of utilities long before the dust settles. They discuss whether they will be able to kill looters. One person is going to stack them up like chord wood. Others question whether or not they could just give the visitor some help. One says she is going to put her money in an off shore bank. Another comes to her aid to help her. I know of an off shore bank in you bathroom you sit on it, it has a handle.
The powers that be gave you the .com bubble, the stock market bubble, the housing bubble, and now the gold and silver bubble. You can’t really think they will let you keep their gold or silver do you. You can surely count on some fellows coming to your house to ask for it back. I think their guns are bigger than your guns. I think they have more guys in their gang than you do in yours.
How are you going to grow food? How are you going to heat your house? Most all heat systems require electricity, even if you heat with gas. What will you do when there is no utilities.When you can’t pay them? How will you cook, where will you get your water, wash your self, clothes, dishes? Some one that has thought of preparing and has decided to stay in their house is only one step above someone who has done nothing. Your best laid defenses a futile. Any one that wanted to could easily be inside of your house in a matter of minutes. You would be in complete shock. If some one comes to your house with the intent to take what you have. You will he helpless. How do you stop a two ton truck. How do you stop tear gas? How do you keep someone from turning off your utilities? Shooting a hole in your propane tank? Your water meter, gas meter, electric meter, will all tell your house is occupied. The exhaust from the furnace, wood heat, wood hot water heater. The vapor from you hot water heater.
You can not control the whole outside of your house from the inside. Your favorite dog spot. Dies like anything else. Buy a good five hundred dollar dog. A twenty cent shell takes the bark out of him pretty dang quick.
Put a mote and thorn bushes around you garden. What a good idea, no one would ever brave those things. Don’t you understand if any one sees you or what you have it is theirs. There are a lot more people outside your house than inside.
This is far from a game, or an in house camping trip. This is going to be for the whole pot. It is going to be for you very life. Things will not get better.There will be nothing to bring it back. You can be sure that the sun will never set on a robust America again. You better find someplace to hold up that is not frequented by anyone. If your seen you better move. You better leave no tracks. You better not litter. You better not be visable from the air. You better not tell your mother where you are going. You better get you spouse a pair of boots. If your not out of sight your not out of touch.
Get a grazing permit, on government land, buy a small share in a mine. Take up gold panning. Have a legitimate reason for being where you are. So you are only questioned once and left alone. Find a river that goes thru uninhabited country. If the adjoining property is privately owned see if you can lease an acre. Be honest in why you want it. Most rural people will sympathize with you.
I could go on and on but this will mostly fall on deaf ears. Too many think they have it all figured out. Most don’t know the first question. If you stay in you home you will become a looter. Or dead. Or a dead looter.
You are waaaaaay out THERE michael. Bravo, bravo. You need help. You must be a bag lady pushing a shopping cart with acess to the net or a Kalifornia tree hugger. Seek help from the dims & wash up. The deaf ears is the guy you voted for. I have a pan for you.
Comments…..This is my first post to anything. I’d like to say that the article was informative as were many of the comments. I especially liked the one about opsec. I’ve been rather closed mouthed anyway, but will be even more vigilant.
@Michael, dude, you have to learn to let your feelings out man. Don’t hold things inside! LOL.:-)))
Ya, tell us what you REALLY think, Mike!
He left out looting churches and their youth centers!
Boy, a co-worker who says he would steal what he needs from others would seriously give me pause for concern. What a douche!
Its funny b/c my husband and I have the ongoing debate: he’s prepared for Mad Max. He’s got the arms and ammo. I’m all about the garden, stocking the pantry and I need to start storing water. I guess we make a pretty good team. I do think there will definitely be pockets of high crime, looting, senseless violence. SoCal, Baltimore, DC, NY and other strong anti-gun areas come to mind. But the reality is we’re ALREADY in a slow burn. How much more decline in our standard of living do people need to see its here? everyone’s waiting for SHTF, Mad Max but they don’t see what’s already happening to them.
@JJ – Good idea. But better make sure you include a version en espanol.
@Ron Jones – Ditto Ferfal’s blog. I think its less collapse than accelerated degradation coming.
@Mac – Thanks for posting this. I got a shopping list out of it (staples) as well as the game plan of my enemies. A twofer!
DISCLAIMER: Half the lies I tell aren’t true.
michael-ease up a bit! Everybody here is just sharing ideas.I guess that’s what you’re doing too, so thanks. But remember, this is the internet: see disclaimer above. I present myself as a middle aged truck driver from Okla but in reality i may be a 12 yr old girl in a manhattan condo stealing time on daddy’s computer. Take it all with a grain of salt.
And besides, if shtf happens, there won’t be enough looters to strike EVERY home, so some of us will probably survive anyway!! By the way, this is our little secret, so don’t tell Daddy I’m in here using his computer. And at least I don’t download porn like my brother does when he’s in here.
Sis,
Why are you telling on me?
“The strong take from the weak, and the smart take from the strong”–James Cagney in ‘The Oklahoma Kid’ (1939)
Maybe we don’t all need a bunker filled with munitions and friends who are ex special forces. Guess we do need a brain though. Soon as we get back to Oz I’m gonna get me one!
I thought it was a “bunker filled with musicians”. I had half the school marching band crammed into the cellar! Dang, I gotta start reading these things more carefully.
Michael, I don’t remember hearing about mass deaths in Argentina a few years ago. The truth is, most people get through most shtf scenarios. Even if the US loses two thirds of its population, there will still be more than a hundred million people left over. All will have survived somehow. All (OK most) of those people will be willing to work and trade and make a better life out of the crap they’ve just been handed. Very few of those will have survived completely alone. Humans have survived and prospered because of communities. They will this time too.
As to whether a person can draw on and/or shoot another person, you only know for sure if you’ve done it. Until then you prepare and hope you’ll meet the challenge when it arrives, and hope to God it never does.
All of the lies I tell here are true. But they were all bad. You got me on that one, had to re-read twice & talk to my gold broker after hours which is on a monthly fee. Shipping is free.
I looted some easter eggs today. Egg salad sandwhich’s this week with Hellmann’s mayonnaise (not the light stuff). I’m the King of my household. The plastic ones had quarters & dimes in them. I found the camouflage eggs too. Who would do something like that….
The author says this list is from a book that he never published…well, he really oughta give it a try…the time is right! Try Paladin Press…they are always looking for such materials!!!!.
http://trib.com/news/local/casper/article_f4a9ad88-6a1b-11e0-897e-001cc4c002e0.html
The American do over by sovereigns are terrorists according to the f b i
Comments…. Do you commenters who will do whatever it takes to survive really think survival would be worth it?
We have some basic preps in place, but ‘m wondering why I would want to survive in a world where every day is a battle to stay alive and there is no reason to expect that life will ever return near enough to normal to be worth living. A quick death would be a better option.
I imagine that suicide will be very high among middle aged and up….maybe even some young people, but mainly middle and up….JMHO
That pretty well covers your base BJ. Imagine that. Get your purple suit out of the dry cleaners ultimate cynic. You’re are a recycled pop tart.
A SHTF story, 1st chapter only. Our fair city is one hour north of Houston and 100 mile north of the gulfcoast. Hurricane Rita made landfall just east of Houston one month after Katrina. The Tinstars and media told Baytown and Houston to evacuate. The real people left early, stayed with family or occupied all motels. The rest, caught in snailcrawl traffic, ran out of gas as they reached fair city. But there was no fuel to be had in town. So they went to Wallyworld, bought a few things, went back to the car and waited in the heat till until boredom overtook them. Back inside Wally’s they strolled around while eating Wally’s potato chips and other goodies off the shelf. That only worked for another few hours until the kids got sleepy so over at the bedding department, they let the kids nap on … you guessed it. The employees couldn’t make them leave, they were just too many and the parking lot, a sea of trash and dirty diapers, had many more. Houston has 3 million people, our fair city has 30,000 on a good day. An influx of 100,000 can overwhelm even an incompetent bureaucracy. Walmart had the National Guard close the store and blockade the entrance even though the shelves still had a few supplies. The crime is that next time Walmart, no dummies, will close the store early, thereby depriving the law abiding of the chance to grab a last minute item. Can you blame them?
Rita damaged smaller communities inland, not Houston so the riff-raff went home within 2 days. If, next time, the diasater is longterm, like say, from 2012 to 2016, the older refugees will stay in their cars or under the overpass for the first week or so but, without food and stuff, the younger bucks will form into group and go ‘foraging’ in the neighborhoods. God help the vunerable.
Will the coming failure be fast or slow? If fast, re-read the all the above and prepare. Maybe though it will be like the fall of the Soviet Union. They managed the upheaval of national government collapse without too much violence. But then, they were acclimated to deprivation beforehand. Our boys, though, think they are owed something.
God help the scum that think they are going to loot my house.Canadians may be seen around the world as polite and well mannered.I guess most people around do not realize how heavily armed some of us are up here.If you can make it past the suprises I have in my front and back yards,there is going to be a real treat for you when get even close to my door.Alberta can be compared as the Texas of the north,and the rest of Canada knows how many guns we have here…………….bring it on !
If everyone were to remain calm (regardless of how likely that’s going to happen…) and remain human, I’m sure it would lend a lot of years to everyone’s lifespans in such a situation as is described on this website. Perhaps there would be no need for such roles as ”looter” and ”looted.” This could only happen if everyone was aware of the possible scenarios that could occur. I don’t see what people have against all of the doomsday, worse case scenario, SHTF, 2012, etc, stuff. I think it’s better to be safe than sorry: which equates to the fact that we should educate ourselves on the possible things that could happen! What’s there to lose? If whatever it is doesn’t happen, you lose some time and effort. If it does, you loose all chances of survival, i.e. your life. Which would you rather take a chance with?! Anyways, if we are all aware, and calm when/if this stuff happens, we could plan and structure in a way that could lead to the benefit of everyone. But no, this won’t happen! And why? 1. Many people won’t believe this “crazy talk.” 2. People can’t remain calm and collected in these types of situations!!
Human nature: a great barrier, ironically enough, to allowing our race (human race) to be just that, human. We’re rendered animals when something goes terribly amiss. What a shame it will be, when history repeats itself once more!
I am calm & human Trying. I practice at being slow & sure. CLICK! BANG! CLICK BANG!
I am going to remain calm when the shtf, but if this butthead comes to my house, he better apply some KY to his crowbar.
Get an artic sleeping bag! This will truly help you survive in the event of a power outage – in the winter. Having it will allow you & family members to remain in the home, even if below freezing outside. Get one rated to at least zero degrees or lower. Sure it’ll be cold inside, but much warmer than being outdoors…
How about instead of teaching people how to be Fucking Thieves, you teach them how to prepare in advance so they don’t have to loot!! That’s what my family and I have been doing. And one of the things I did to prepare is buy several Assault weapons to use on the very people you’re instructing how to loot. So include one more tip for me please. That tip is to kiss your family goodbye, because if you try to loot from me, you won’t be coming home!!!!
Looting? Seriously?
Anyone who thinks this thread was training for f-ing thieves, ya got to be kidding, they know already.
Seven2 asked, “Looting? Seriously?”
Via Survivalblog:
Looters pilfering through shattered homes; nighttime curfew imposed
Associated Press – April 29, 2011 4:34 PM ET
TUSCALOOSA, Ala. (AP) – Tuscaloosa residents say looters are cleaning out the remains of shattered homes.
Shirley Long says thieves are just stealing. She says they took her jewelry, and her guns.
Tuscaloosa police Capt. C.J. Hartley says authorities know looting is a problem, but a curfew imposed last night has helped.
http://www.wrcbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=14542781
” A pint of sweat will save a gallon of blood.”
Clouds weaken
& die.
The sun, an orange skull,
whispers quietly, becomes an
island, & is gone.
There they are
watching
us everything
will be dark.
The night changed
eyes glowing green.
We were aware
knee-deep in the fluid air
as death moves on
tanks in our wake.
Everything is vague and dizzy. The skin swells and
there is no more distinction between parts of the
body. An enctoaching sound of threatening,
mocking, monotonous voices. This is fear and
attraction of being swallowed.
Death rips through the night
with our blinding light.
We are witness
to the killing.
Need Some Guys
to Create a
Team
🙂
I have two small kids and a wife to protect and feed.
Be my guest and try to come to my house to steal my survival suplies.
I will defend myself and mine with leathal force.
I hate thieves…. I freaking hate thieves………..
My first post…but, uh, yeah. I wish a mofo would try and loot me. My buddies live beside and across from my house. One knows about purification of water. Another knows about defense perimeters, I know of demolition charges and weapons, another knows how to pick locks and slip into homes while the people are home…etc.
A team consisting of me and my buddies….My home is located in the middle of nowhere, their houses built on my land, so, a little town so to speak. All of my buddies are former military except the thief and myself. I was taught combatives and everything I know from my military buddies. Taught how to shoot with deadly accuracy too.
24 assault rifles, 26 side arms ranging from 9mm Glocks to .50 Deagle, material if necessary to make demo charges. 4 years worth of MREs to last us all 3 meals a day 7 days a week. Water already stored. 400 gallons within 3 weeks and growing.
If needed, we will form our own raiding party, and raid nearby cities and bring back essentials like medicine. We will take in people that cannot fend for themselves. They will abide our rules or get shot.
We won’t be raping and murdering others. We uphold a code of honor that will last longer than the government will.
Est Sularus Oth Mithas- My honor is my life.
Anon: You have a plan to survive. Glad to see it…SHTF is already happening, he only thing left is the straw that breaks the camel’s back..The next 9-11 Event & When The De-population plan is initiated.
I’m a single mother of three boys and have taken a few steps to prepare but it’s hard to prepare and take care of the family now.I’m sorry but when times get tough I’ll do what i have to do to take care of my family.I don’t believe in taking anything from anyone but if its abandoned it’s fair game.
I just gotta say something, and sorry if someone’s already addressed this ’cause I don’t have time to read every single post here, but….. I’ve read a lot of people saying that they’re ready, willing, and sometimes yearning to shoot someone if they try to loot. They say that looting is bad and wrong, “It’s STEALING!”, but do they realize that they’re talking about killing another human being? A lot of people have hoarded a year’s worth of supplies and are willing to take someone’s life to keep it. To me, that attitude reeks of extreme fear. Everyone seems dead set on staying in their homes and living off of their supplies (what happens when that runs out?), and are more willing to kill as many people as it takes to defend those supplies than they are willing to relocate. I don’t hoard. I don’t have the choice of hoarding because I don’t own my own home and am constantly on the move. But I’m willing to bet that those accustomed to a nomadic lifestyle will be in a better position to survive than those intent on staying in their homes and defending themselves from looters.
Now, I’m not saying you should never kill another person for any reason. Far from it. I’m completely willing and able to kill someone if my or my husband’s life is being threatened. But to kill someone to defend material goods? No. If the thief tries to harm me or my family, I have a gun and other weapons and I’m willing to use them. But I think it’s a much better plan to learn how to procure food and water from nature than to just plan on sitting by your year’s supply of rice with a gun and a year’s supply of bullets.
The real S hasn’t even HTF yet, and people are already showing their true colors. To some, it’s preferable to kill than to find a way to survive while showing mercy. This is where the breakdown of humanity starts, and it’s based on fear. Perhaps hoarding isn’t the answer if you’re going to be lying awake at night, cradling your gun, worrying about your stores of food and water. Maybe the answer isn’t defending your permanent home at all costs.
Has anyone else here considered learning to live on-the-move, as a nomad, with the skills to find/procure your own food and water as you go? It would certainly have the added benefit of keeping you off the radar for when everyone’s being rounded up to go to the camps.
True survival is the ability to outlast any supplies you have stored. When the matches are burnt and the lighter is out of fuel, can you still make fire? When you squeeze off that last round and your rifle becomes nothing more than an awkward club, can you still obtain food or protect yourself?
As far as looters, by all means do what you must to protect yourself and more importantly your loved ones even if that means ending a looters life. A lot of posters here act as if dealing with looters will be like shooting fish in a barrel. Most posters here seem to think of themselves as the baddest mofo on the planet. Guess what, you’re not! Whats the saying? “If the enemy is in range, so are you”. When your arrogance causes you to underestimate another persons ability to take what you have, will you continue to survive?
Band together, work together and remain civil to each other. Be prepared to protect your family and your neighbor and expect the same from them. Keep a low profile and most of all dont underestimate your enemies.
Excellent! That is MY plan. Move and live off the land. Staying away from trouble spots and having nothing to loot in the first place.
This article is deplorable. How can you write such an article? This site should be dedicated to informing people about what they can do to prepare for an emergency and keep your family safe. Not to show people how to loot.
When it comes down to it, the (first &)last thing we’ll really have to worry about is looters. (which seems to be the main topic here) What about biological warfare, dirty nuclear devices, and martial law..rounding up people by the thousands and heading them off to FEMA Death Camps. Kinda’ takes the worry of looters away from me.
Biological warfare — always possible of course. But why now, by whom, to meet what objective? Doesn’t sound like it follows from the current unraveling of American life.
Dirty nuclear devices — very limited range (fraction of a mile) and very difficult/expensive to create. Again, no clear motive associated with what is now happening.
Martial law — now you are onto something. But already mentioned by many writers as being a part of the looting scene: if those imposing martial law are on the up and up, then it helps control looters; if not, law enforcement becomes the looters.
FEMA death camps — this is a very relevant danger. But at least not so ethically complicated as shooting a looter. A FEMA camp is a place to go and die; do whatever you can to avoid going.
Answer to all likely scenarios (looters, martial law, death camps) seems to be OPSEC — stay hidden; only those living under your roof (and maybe not even all of those) know the full extent of your preparations; only fellow prepers know you are a preper at all.
The hole thing is realy a joke. If it crap hits the fan then you can talk about how your to good to loot. What this was getting at I think was don’t sit and feel like help is coming don’t hope someone will save you no one is going to Bring you food watter. I don’t think sneaking in the nabores house while they sleep and killing them for some rice is a good idea but I will be going to the Walmart near me. those I’m too good for that kind of people it will just make it easy for people like me. I do have food set aside I do have guns ammo to hold me over. I can make fire the native way. But I will take what I have to. If you think you will survive in a crap has hit the fan situation with out killing without looting without doing thing that cross the moral line then you are going to need a big hole and a life time of food. It’s going to be a dark world
On looting…
My wife needs a certain medication to survive.. do you think if something happened to our supply, I would not do everything in my power to get it for her? of course, looting would be last option, but it would be an option. If any of you in the same situation.. can you not say the same? would you loot to save a loved ones life?
The thing with all of this is.. WHEN, WHEN, will TSHTF?
Already has. Just not equally everywhere. It seems to me that WHEN isn’t something to worry about. If you are still relatively safe and still have a somewhat normal life, then you can still make more preparations. A good thing. If not, well take stock and figure out how to survive with the situation you have.
The comments on this site are like millions of others and why wouldn’t they be. After all, in a God-less society, most people have been reduced to a mentality of, if you can’t beat em-join em. Whatever happened to love thy neighbor as thyself? The SH*T is already hitting the fan. All rugs are slowly being pulled from under us and all the Face, Space, Tweet and blog comments seemed geared towards killing, violence and ignorance. If you’re wondering where did this great nation go wrong, you can look in the mirror for your answer.
Now mind you, I’m not defenseless or unprepared, but I also have the good sense to see that We The People are all in this together, along with the rest of the people outside this country. Those who control and manipulate all the world’s fiat currencies have designed this implosion, not the poor, the indigent, the uneducated–and we let them, because they piped broadband porn and sports into our castles, and our so-called friends brought the cheap beer and aspartame snacks.
We are the ones we’ve been waiting for, and our answer is to shoot first, ask questions later. While I realize this may be prudent at times, it has never been the remedy–and sadly never will be. War is not Peace, Freedom is not Slavery.
It was never America by itself that made this nation great, but its people. And now, many of its people are God-less in their hearts, reality based TV in their minds, and shallow in their giving of themselves to one another. Instead of waiting for more stuff to hit the fan, how about making a difference in the world right now, today.
Don’t bother me with your rude comments because I won’t return to read them anyway, and what good will they bring to my life, yours, or anyone else for that matter. Scripture says every man will bear the mark in his forehead and in his hand, which I believe may mean, in your mind and in your works. A spiritual person can see the way out is by changing how you think and how you work. How about changing from a mindset of scarcity to abundance. This planet lacks no resources–period. The only thing in short supply is love.
Forget heading into the hills or caverns my special forces friends. The chemtrails you deny and debunk have filled your bodies with radar tracking materials that can easily be picked up on screen. Forget bugging out to another safe haven country as well because this scientific militarized dictatorship is global. Only some of our survival will hinge on weapons, water and food. The rest is going to be spiritual, and quite frankly from what I read across 90+ percent of the internet is shameful, nothing but people who have turned into the very thing they hate most, their own enemy, their own worst nightmare.
You, and only you can change this process. Reach out to those in need. Begin to divorce yourself from the system of debased, worthless paper money. Invest in the things you can’t buy, like helping your fellow man. Change everything around you and everything will change. Forget joining a formalized organization with a catchy name, and look right out your front door or down the street for someone in need–trust me, you won’t have to look far. Why not try doing something that will really make a difference. At this point, what have you got to lose? They will no doubt try and take everything from us. Should we let them have our dignity too? Our legacy will be what we make it. You are the one you’ve been waiting for.
Amen!
Just saw this 10 minute clip. Those of you who think all looters will be clueless and unorganized better think twice about your defensive procedures and environment. There will be people, small groups or large that will have the tacical experience and the foresight to plan/prepare for a raid/attack as opposed to just going in carelessly. This is more about them finding you in your “secure” area than looting a walmart.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOo9bjLtL3Q&feature=player_embedded
Side note: I realize this video is fictitious, it is food for though. Think! If you think you can go it alone then you probably will be killed by a group looking for your stuff. Safety in numbers people.
RON PAUL for PRESIDENT!!! If you’re not a political person or if you think you know everything about politics, DR.RON PAUL is the man for you!! This man is about our RIGHTS as humans, and getting our economy on the right track. He is legitimately the wisest and most honest man I know. Lots of people think the world is gonna end or some major disaster will happen, well i predict that instead of some major negative action taking place, this man will rise above the pigs in our govt, creating a HUGE positive campaign that will be the beginning of a new America. He already started the REVOLUTION years ago and this will be the Earth-changing event that everyone is anticipating. WAKE UP PEOPLE!! I’m embarrassed that America is trying to become the Hitler of the world, think about it, we have troops in OVER 150 COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD!?! WTF!?!? Bring our children home NOW!!!! We can’t force democracy and force peace through the barrel of a gun! and many people are just letting it happen, saying “I’m just one person who can’t make a change” well that’s garbage!! Every single person has an opinion and a right to stand up and speak our minds, or GO VOTE to get results. We have to come together as a community, as a society, as AMERICA and make our founding fathers proud!!!!!!!!!!!! We can’t just sit around and wait on a disaster, so we can plan on looting, or plan on looter-shooting. If we came together as a country with the right morals, this would be a much less significant issue. Ron Paul is our answer!!!! do your own research and please spread the word!!!!!
Thank you for this, I now can understand how some of those folks that loot are working and can then keep myself safer. If in the situation the caution of type of stores is wise since I might take something to help me and not wish to be in the midst of trouble. Good article.
You know if you vote for the right candidate and party none of you will have to worry about when the shit hits the fan cause there won’t be any shit and no fan.
Maybe we need a looter/foragers guidelines.
If we have a complete collapse of society. And it’s a bank owned property. Or a corporate business. (Which no longer exist)It’s fair game.
A small Sole Proprietorship is no go also as the owner might be alive.
An unoccupied house might have people show up. So that’s taboo too.
I know some unoccupied properties that won’t miss their fencing and barbed wire. I plan on multiple layers that I cannot get away with under Rule Of Law.