The Department of Homeland Security is set to purchase over 62 million rounds of ammo typically used in AR-15 semi-automatic rifles, just weeks after the ATF was forced to back down on a ban on M855 bullets.
A posting on FedBizOpps.gov this week reveals that the DHS is looking to contract with a company to provide 12.6 million rounds of .223 Remington ammunition per year for a period of five years – totaling 62.5 million bullets.
The solicitation explains that the purchase is intended, “to achieve price savings over the current .223 Rem duty ammunition.” The bullets will be used by U.S. Customs and Border Protection agents nationwide for “training” purposes.
The .223 Remington is one of the most common rifle cartridges in use in the United States and is used both in bolt action rifles and semi-automatic rifles such as the AR-15 and the Ruger Mini-14.
In 2013, following concerns about the DHS buying large quantities of several different types of ammunition, weapons manufacturers noted that the feds may have been attempting to control the ammunition market by forcing manufacturers to hold back stock from general sale.
“If they periodically do this in increments, they’re going to control how much ammo is available on the commercial market,” a weapons manufacturer told Michael Savage, adding that the contracts with bullet manufacturers stipulate that everything made goes to the government as the number one priority before it is allowed to enter the commercial market.
In March 2013, Californian Congressman Doug LaMalfa and 14 of his House peers wrote a letter to the Department of Homeland Security demanding to know why the federal agency was buying so many rounds of ammunition and whether the purchases were part of a deliberate attempt to restrict supply to the American people.
“The extraordinary level of ammunition purchases made by Homeland Security seems to have, in states such as my own, created an extreme shortage of ammunition to the point where many gun owners are unable to purchase any,” LaMalfa wrote in the letter.
The bulk purchase follows attempts by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms to ban M855 ammo, another popular round for AR-15’s used by hunters. The ATF justified the ban by claiming that the bullets were “armor piercing” and a threat to law enforcement officers.
After being on the receiving end of a huge backlash, the feds were forced to back down and ATF director B. Todd Jones subsequently tendered his resignation. Democratic Congressman Steve Israel called the ATF backdown “cowardly” and vowed to revive the ban.
The ATF’s threat to ban the ammo temporarily caused prices of the bullet to surge more than double in price.
Although federal agencies are increasingly hiding their purchases by limiting public information on fbo.gov, it can still be conservatively estimated from available data that the feds have purchased at least 2.11 billion rounds of ammunition since April 2012:
Date Reported Agency Amount Caliber
April ’12 – Feb ’13 Various 2,000,000,000 Various
03/25/13 DHS 360,000 .40 S&W
07/26/13 NOAA 72,000 .40 S&W
07/26/13 Army 2,550,000 7.62x39mm
07/26/13 Army 425,000 9x18mm Makarov
08/19/13 TSA 3,454,000 .357 SIG
02/11/14 DHS 141,000 .308 Remington
04/22/14 DHS 25,000,000 12 Gauge
05/22/14 TSA 24,000,000 .357 SIG
04/15/15 DHS 62,000,000 .223 Remington
TOTAL 2,118,002,000
That’s enough ammo to kill around 30% of the world’s population.
Furthermore, U.S. soldiers were shooting around 5.5 million rounds of ammunition per month during the war in Iraq, or 66 million rounds annually. Using that figure, the feds have stockpiled enough ammo over the past two years to fight a 32-year war.
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*********************
Paul Joseph Watson is the editor at large of Infowars.com and Prison Planet.com.
Kit Daniels also contributed to the bottom of this article with an update.
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that only means we wont have to spend all our money on just ammo stocking up but other things cus they are stocking up for us all we have to do is take it off the dead bodies let the bodies hit the floor……
We need a mutiny inside DHS. If and when Obola gives the order for martial law or whatever he’ll try to call it, we need DHS personnel to mutiny and shoot their superiors. And to take their stores of weapons and ammo and turn it over to the true patriots.
“the contracts with bullet manufacturers stipulate that everything made goes to the government as the number one priority before it is allowed to enter the commercial market.”
I place ammo shortages of this kind, squarely on the ammo manufacturers. Ammo manufacturers should not sign such a contract, because it discriminates against their own customer base…the customers that keep them in business.
Any PATRIOT would never consider such a thing.
Unless that “patriot” complies with some mandatory requirement to sign such stuff in order to be allowed to do business (since, in this rich man’s only economy, anyone has to be “allowed” by permits, fees, certifications, etc., in order to even do business!).
“the contracts with bullet manufacturers stipulate that everything made goes to the government as the number one priority before it is allowed to enter the commercial market.”
And you know this…..how? pretty much ALL contracts are confidential. I suspect this one is also.
We need a mutiny inside DHS. If and when Obola gives the order for martial law or whatever he’ll try to call it, we need DHS personnel to mutiny and shoot their superiors. And to take their stores of weapons and ammo and turn it over to the true patriots.
I did some research, not to be a naysayer, but to be factual. Customs and Border Protection has 43600 armed personnel. The US Border Patrol (probably who the ammo is for) has 21370 personnel. So we will base this on them That equates to approximately 2950 rounds per agent for a year. Now if they qualify once a quarter on the M-4 that means approximately 738 rounds per quarter and it is a 50 round qual plus approximately 10-15 warm up round and zeroing rounds due to every officer not having an M-4 assigned to them. Now this does not take into account of how much of this ammo will go to the training of their special response teams who will obviously train significantly more then others and use significantly more ammo. Also the article states that it will not be delivered in lump sum but at 12.6 million per year for 5 years. So that equates to approximately 590 rounds per agent per year or approximately 150 per quarter. So approximately 65 for zeroing and qualifying and 85 for additional training if every agent trains exactly the same amount. Plenty of things to fear about DHS this ain’t one of them.
You are not a naysayer, but indeed factual, without falling prey to idiotic conspiracy theories which seem to abound on this site as well as many, many others. Those who “believe” these idiotic theories, also believe that the federal government IS capable of the screenwriters fictional accounts of the Feds on television and in film. We need to remember that MOST of these same federal “agents” are more like Lois Lerner and NOT like the fictional character of “Jack Bauer”. The vast majority OF “Federal law enforcement agents” are unionized, and do ONLY what they absolutely have to to get their paychecks.Only a very few of them are true professionals. While the rank and file of the Border Patrol in my professional experience are pretty dedicated, their middle, upper and senior management are riddled with non-performing amateur proctologists, as is the FBI, Secret Service, various elements of the IRS Criminal Investigation Division, Treasury Department, Diplomatic Security Service and the other federal agencies. Do you conspiracy idiots truly believe these mopes are creative AND intelligent enough to create such a cabal to purposefully “deny” normal consumers of legal and lawful ammunition? Most of these pogues would screw up a one car funeral procession on their best day. They are clerks and yes, history has shown us how dangerous clerks can really be, about as dangerous as community organizers, former first ladies, and so-called “reverends” et al.(including Heinrich Himmler-the most infamous clerk)
This is nothing more than a NORMAL RFP, which most likely will not include all or most of the requested ammunition.
You people hjave to learn to think for yourselves, and DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH, before making leaps of assumptions that play directly into the hands of the puppet-masters.
US Centurion, IS spot on the money on this one.
“Do you conspiracy idiots truly believe these mopes are creative AND intelligent enough to create such a cabal to purposefully “deny” normal consumers of legal and lawful ammunition?”
Uhhh. Whaaa-at? Oooof.
You don’t think the NWO ZOG Cabal are sufficiently creative, intelligent, and malevolently powerful to manipulate information and perception to “deny” normal consumers of legal and lawful ammunition!!!
And you dare to claim that those who repeatedly chant the alert about the global NWO ZOG cabal are…, are…, are…, (choke, spittle, dripping mouth foam)… are..
CONSPIRACY IDIOTS!!!
How dare you!
I have travelled a lot internationally, and I have never seen a border agent with a long gun.
I have seen a few in photos of border agents during rare moments of heightened security, with some officers on security duty with long guns but that’s about it.
There is a definite militarization of border agents happening here. Border patrol is normally a hands on business, meaning you need your hands free, which can’t be done hole holding a long gun. The paranoid government is definitely doing their own weapons and ammo first prepping.
I did some more research and USBP tactical unit deploys for bandit and rip squad interdiction. Also all agents, while they don’t always carry long guns on duty they are required to maintain proficeceny and have been for over a decade. Like I said lots of things to fear about DHS this ain’t one of them
Good math.
However, we still need an inside force of insurrectionists who will disobey orders from the Obola administration to implement martial law and confiscations.
The average German government employee was a horrible coward against Hitler’s National Socialism. Let the American government employees not be horrible cowards against Obama’s National Socialism.
Oh Yeah, NOAA needs a lot of .40 Cal to shoot diwn those nasty Hurricanes. F~N Joke this wasteful Grabberment.
FUK EM!
Hopefully it’s all federal brand. That is the shittiest most fail to fire stuff there is!
Thats almost as big as my stash lol 🙂
30-30 isn’t on there 🙂 ha. old school for a young buck. Now if i could trade off my 40 for a 44. And yes I do wear a cowboy hat boots and I love my ponies. Not a big fan of country music though. meh
Didn’t see .44 Special, either, so I’m good.
SGAmmo.com has .38 Special at about $150 per 500, delivered, good FMJ stuff. Can’t reload for that.
If I go through all I’ve got then I will have taken a wrong turn at some point during the “event”. I’m hoping I don’t have to touch any of it. Take the path of least resistance, remain inconspicuously invisible while those that have an itching for a fire fight use theirs up.
Takes less ammo to pick off the stragglers?
Genius:
I bet we have more than they do!;-}
They can have a lot of ammo but you have to shoot it to make it work and who in the H@#$ is going to be doing that? We have them out numbered by a long shot.
S.T.S.F.P. N.Reb
Speaking of long shot. I live in an area full of hunters it’s like a religion here. How many of the turds that will fight us can even shoot 500 yds. let alone 1000? Snipers will rule the day!
Reb, something I just thought of. Have you ever tried cryogenically hardening a rifle barrel? I tell you what, it works great! There was a co. called 300belowzero in illinois that did it. You can make a cheap rifle a tack driver. Along with free floating and glass bedding, you will be amazed and it extends the life of the barrel tremendously!
Just remember to break the barrel in first. Shoot 100 rnds, or use abrasive coated bullets out of it first. This will take the machining and tool marks out of the rifling. SWFA.com has bad ass scopes with patented reticle and 1/10 milrad adjustments for 300 bux. They are built tough and rated to 50 cal. With handloaded match ammo you are a WMDlol.
Now I know you’re no genius.
Cryogenic treatment does not harden a barrel.
And firelapping is the best way anybody knows to use up 50% of the barrel’s accuracy life in one short afternoon.
Get all your information from comic books, do you?
Geeezus christ it’s the head moron again! It figures your stupid ass would chime in! As usual you have done no research at all! Did you look for the test results? Did you visit the website? Have you ever personally tried it? Did you know many top shooters swear by it? Are you fuckin retarded? It is a patented process they own that is PROVEN and some barrel manufacturers use it in their top end match barrels. God is there no end to your ignorance and stupidity? They use it to harden tools of all sorts and anything steel that needs to be super hardened. Wow old man, you amaze me lol.
Heres the website since I know you are too stupid to look it up 300below.com
One thing was clear from the start – there had been a tremendous increase in the accuracy of barrel brought about by the deep freeze alone.
Geza Nagy
PRECISION SHOOTING
I test fired one of my XP-100’s – the average group size was 1.370″ at 200 yards. I removed this barrel and sent it to you for stress relief. I am very pleased to report the average group size is now .786″. This is a reduction of .584″! I am very happy with the results.
Frank Glenn, President
ACCURACY UNLIMITED
The first thing noticed was that cleaning was much easier after the deep freeze…and very exciting to me was a 52% DECREASE in group size.
LTC Ellis, Sr.
Master Marksman
I’ve now had six barrels treated…and every confounded one of them has shot better after the treatment. What the treatment did to a couple of previously ho-hum barrels was amazing.
Merrill Martin
PRECISION SHOOTING
What do you have to say now?
I have to say that you are a fool to believe all that advertising literature, and that’s what it is. Those checkout lane magazines you read will NEVER do a straight up story on fads like cryo treatment, because they would lose advertising revenue.
Here’s what Ed Shilen had to say about it: “If you have heard that the cryogenic treatment stress relieves steel, this is false. We have measured the residual stress in 4140 and 416 steel with a process called x-ray diffraction. After much R&D, we have not been able to measure any changes in molecular stress after cryo treatment. For this reason we do not endorse the cryogenic process, but we can safely say that it is not detrimental to the barrel either.”
http://www.shilen.com/faq.html#question1
I do a fair amount of gunsmithing for my own account, and Shilen has supplied several blanks for me.
The cryo process is easy and the entry cost is very low. It makes use of the fact that Linde and Union Carbide practically give away liquid nitrogen; it’s a byproduct of their cryogenic fractionation of air to make liquid oxygen for the steel industry.
The low startup cost is why there are so many small-timers doing it.
And using magazine publicity and fools like Genius to bring in business.
Ya right, all the hundreds of people that have used it with excellent results including myself are full of shit huh? Just because some barrel maker says they can’t find a difference? The truth is in the results that people get and swear by not some xray test from your buddy. So all the people that posted many of them professionals and military are full of shit and lying? Wow again old man.
Ya right, all the hundreds of people that have used it with excellent results including myself are full of shit huh? Just because some barrel maker says they can’t find a difference? The truth is in the results that people get and swear by not some xray test from your buddy. So all the people that posted many of them professionals and military are full of shit and lying? Wow again old man.
Ok genius, time to step up to the plate with your reply to old coach. Why do I get the distinct feeling we’ll never hear anything but crickets chirping?
Granny, you post this right after my reply? Are you his wife? Birds of a feather lol.
Granny, you post this right after my reply? Are you his wife? Birds of a feather lol.
Real benchresters’ comments:
http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?86174-Anyone-still-freezing-your-barrels
Another thing, was the barrel he tested done by 300below or one of their imitators? Heres an article from precision shooting magazine http://www.300below.com/precision-shooting/#3
I read that and they used some imitators process as far as I can see. Not all companies use the same methods. 300 below has a precision system that no one else has and the people that use them love them. Read the site and get a clue.
The Deep Cryogenic Processing previously had an Achilles heel. It was inconsistent. Improvements to steels would vary from little improvement to over a 1000% increase in useful life. The trick is utilizing strict controls in the processing. Temperature changes must be controlled exactly and the part subjected must be run with thermal stability, for homogeneous temperature changes throughout the metal. ie: the core temperature must be equal to the surface temperature for consistent results. Metals require an optimal cooling curve. Process with the wrong curve and the treatment will be ineffective or create stress. The computer processor solves the problem. The com
puter can be programmed to duplicate the optimal cooling curve exactly within 1
10 of one degree Fahrenheit, so the mass descends at an even, slow rate. The computer control is repeatable, time after time. A contractor for NASA in 1994 hailed the 300 Below, Inc. equipment as the most accurate thermal system they had ever seen. The same system was used to stress relieve an optical bench for a planetary probe. It works.
Genius:
I have heard of that but never tried it.
I have an 6mm that put one hole for ever 5 shots at 400 yards an 30-06 that does the same at 600 yards and a 300 win mag that will do 3 rounds in one hole at over 800 yards if I do my part. H*&^ at my age I cant see that far with out a “BIG” spotting scope!;-}
S.T.S.F.P. N.Reb
Post a link to your 5 shot 1 hole group at 600 yards. If you can, you have a unicorn.
Jim:
It was one big ragged hole and I have only did it on time. I know the rifle can do it, but not sure I can do it again. Same with the 300 win mag. one ragged hole.
S.T.S.F.P. N.Reb
I can’t put bullets in the same hole, as I shoot mostly over iron sights. I can put all 10 shots from my ruger 10/22 in a milkjug at 175 yards in under 5 seconds though (over iron sights standing unsupported).
I can usually put 8/10 shots in that same milk jug at 175 yards with my M1A in well under 10 seconds as well, also standing unsupported over iron sights.
Shooting from kneeling, or prone behind a ditch or berm, is obviously better still.
I am confident that out to 300 yards or so my first target won’t live 5 seconds if I have my M1A, M4, or AK47.
Over iron sights my target acquisition is so easy that I can move to the next target really fast. It’s fun to take ten 1 gallon milk jugs full of water, with a drop of blue food coloring to make them light blue, and place them out between 100 to 300 yards. Load 10 rounds of hollow points (it makes an awesome explosion/geyser when you hit that can’t be questioned) and see how fast you can shoot them. Fun for the whole family.
try all that while a shitload of enemy are shooting back at ya ,, way different game
Wow, that’s good bull shootin’.
I used to have an old stevens .243 that I had cryogenically hardened and free floated and glass bedded with the stock barrel. Using 47.5 grains of H414 and 70 grain sierra matchkings loaded to 3/1000 off the lands it would consistently shoot 7 inch groups at 600 yards with no wind. The average muzzle velocity was 3605 fps. And thats no bullshoot!
With a keyboard and a little imagination, a Genius can do anything!
Like imagine you can ever get your facts straight 🙂
“G”
If we add our stashes together we would have more.
I see they aren’t showing 300 Win Mag, 357 Mag, 6.8MM SPC.
I noticed that some of the guys have mentioned other rounds that I also shoot.
Sgt.
Forgot 7.62X54R.
My Sniper rounds are 308, 30-06, 7.62x54R, 300 Win Mag.
I know what I can do with all of these and I just hope I never have to.
Sgt.
Sarge, The 7.62×54 is about the same as an 30.06 but has a .311 diameter bullet. I prefer to standardize larger calibers to .308 diameter (30.06, .308. .300winmag) Because they come in every variety imaginable and are readily available and powders interchange. Barnes X bullets for penetration, Sierra matchkings for accuracy, Hogdon H1000 for power, etc. For best accuracy only neck size the cases and use the same cases in the same gun. I don’t like having a lot of different calibers that are in odd sizes.
Been shopping for a bolt action 308
I’m leaning toward a Tikka T3 tactical or super varmint.
Anyone have suggestions for an alternative in a similar price range?
I would go with .300 win mag instead. It has a shitload more power and is still a .308 diameter bullet.
Also I would recommend a remington 700 action as it has a LOT of accessories to chose from and is proven. Talk to some pro shooters and get their opinion on what barrel is best and how to develop a match rifle. Tikka is a great rifle but pricey and hardly any upgrades for them. A good heavy 30 inch barrel in 300 win mag should be awesome 🙂
My choice of 308 cal is mainly to stay consistent with other weapons. Stockpiling another calibre is expensive, bulky, and hard to transport.
The longest distance I can see from the highest points where I live or where I might bug out to, is less than the range of a 308.
The added recoil of of a 300 mag and the extra noise isn’t worth it in my opinion.
300 mag costs about 70% more than 308.
The Tikka T3 compact tactical has all the bells and whistles I would have to pay hundreds to add to the Remington, the Tikka I believe has a more accurate barrel.
I really appreciate the feedback, and I plan on doing more research on the Remington before I put my money down.
Savage model 10 precision carbine $750, savage model 10 predator in 6.5 creedmore, $750. Savage model 11 hog hunter $450.
In my opinion Savage rifles are the best bang for your buck. Keep it light, 20-22 inch barrel. Save cash for good optics. The hog hunter has factory iron sights. I own all of the above and they all shoot well under 1 MOA out of the box. All are medium contour barrels. The 6.5 creedmore is a recent purchase, and so far is more accurate with factory ammo than my 308’s with handloads. Best group so far is about 0.6 inches at 115 yards.
Super easy to rebarrel and change calibers too if you are so inclined. Just need 2 tools and caliber specific headspace gauges. Lots of quality barrels available pre cut/threaded and chambered. You can do this in about 20 minutes or so after you get a couple under your belt.
Savage arms has some nice products, but one review I read said, by the time he added a quality trigger upgrade, and replaced the substandard optics I might have well have bought a better quality brand that included what I wanted, from the get go. So, I guess it comes down to what you want, and trying to match it from the factory available choices.
I saw a Savage in the store for a great price, and will definitely keep it in mind for a passes out weapon, if you catch my drift.
A bit more on calibre selection that others commented on. If I were to add just one more calibre to my collection, I would want a .338 Lapua magnum for is massive extra range and penetration. To be able to stop a hardened vehicle at a thousand yards is pretty awesome. I don’t think anyone wants to fight ten armed men on their door step. A great long range rifle, could be a game changer. A .338 Lapua magnum at $2.50 per round is quite prohibitive though.
Genius, no federal brand in my stockpile for any caliber I have. I’ve had trouble with that brand myself. I’ll take any brand but federal even if it’s a few dollars more per box.
why all the 7.62×39 how many ak47 do they have from the nam war sks from korean??? Crane navel in southern Indiana has under ground storage that a train track runs in and they ship stuff by the train load and store in the underground bunkers/storage facility
So they can hand all the ammo over to the Chinese and Russian soldiers when the rest of them get over here.
Kind of ironic that we taxpayers are paying for the rope (ammo) to hang (shoot) us, ain’t it?
The Russians use 5.45mm rifles like the AK74s, the Chinese the QBZs in 5.8×42 or 5.56.
“WF”
Enlighten me about the 5.8X42 round this is the first that I have heard of it.
Thanks
Sgt.
It was developed by the Chinese as a transition to a smaller caliber from Soviet 7.62×39 to be used in rifles and LMGs and so a soldier could carry more ammo, after seeing the US’s 5.56 and 5.45 of the USSR. Since they were concerned more with defense back then than expansionism, they looked at the 5.56 or 5.45, but decided to adopt 5.8 so an invader couldn’t use their ammo if they ran out. Their goal was also to have something equal to 7.62 or better but as a smaller bullet. From 5.2-6mm, they went with 5.8 claiming it was better than both 5.56 and 5.45 in penetration, energy and velocity retention, flatter trajectory, lethality.
Look !!!!
We have been warned to prep.
If you not awake now
YOU BETTER BE !
Seems like it would be hard to find the funds when the gov is 18 Trillion in the hole.
It’s easy to find money when you get to print it.
shit man with the taxes they get from everything and i mean everything is taxed even death we all deserve to be shot at with 24k solid gold bullets
The Warsaw Pact stuff in that list sticks out like a giant, red, pulsating thumb! Gives me the heebee-jeebees. What the hell do they need those calibers for?
Arming third-world guerrillas somewhere, I hope.
They’re gonna pull the bullets and make buckles and things, out of the brass.
But that’s not the worry, they gotta worry about this site’s ragged hole shooters that, while standing, no support, open sights, shoot one hole five shot groups at incredible distances.
There are a lot of bull shooters on this site and it doesn’t much matter what the topic is.
Training our own military members on those calibers, as well as providing them to the Peshmergah fighters in Kurdistan.
Hope your sore thumbs heal.(that’s NOT a lot of ammo at all for training)
money?? whats money the only money limit they have is how fast a printing press can print it and even then that does not limit them everything is electronic and so what ever number they need it is just created out of thin air nothing backs any money its all just fictional and means nothing think about it do you realy think there is 18 trillion dollars in cash in the world not hardly its all make beleive
If Homeland Security can’t shoot any better than most cops, they will need to empty a full clip in order to stop a ‘legal’ from leaving the country!
“Tee-Hee!”
“Lucky Me! As I only Shoot .45-70!”
And…
“.357 Magnum!”
Both Rounds are all a Survivor / Prepper needs! If a Civil War does Kick-off , there will be plenty of black battle rifles laying around on the ground by the time I choose to get directly involved to really need one!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XCB4A911SM&feature=player_detailpage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjMZ4yTGl1Q&feature=player_detailpage
SL, one member of my ventilation team is a .30 Carbine M1. I bought it from a collector at a gun show 5 years ago for only $400. I have a shitload of ammo stockpiled for it with extra 30-round mags. Easy to operate, fun to shoot, and easy to get parts for. Nowadays the only time I can find the ammo is at gun shows so I snatch up all I can find. Not one of the most popular calibers so when the balloon goes up and foreign troops appear on the streets, I’ll grab an AK along with all the extra mags and ammo I can get my hands on. When the shooting starts, weapons, ammo, and all kinds of gear will be laying around just for the taking.
“B”
I like my little M1 Carbines. I buy and roll my own ammo for them.
You are right about stuff laying around. Be very careful about picking it up there might be a surprise waiting.
If I’m so lucky I’m planning to do the same.
A.S.M.S.
Sgt.
Sarge, I hear you loud and clear. An old Green Beret vet I know once trained me on how to look for trip wires, etc. I won’t be picking up anything too fast and will be selective about what I’m getting.
Load your own ammo, most of what you buy will be military style (or surplus) ball ammo which is noted for being ineffective for quick stops since it tends to punch a very small straight hole that leaves little trauma.
Make your own in soft or hollow point (soft being the better choice for larger targets).
30 Carbine is about the same as a .357 mag in ballistics but better at longer ranges with the right bullets.
FWIW, Ruger -and probably some others- used to chamber a revolver in 30 carb and this makes an excellent companion gun to go with it (one instead of two calibers to carry). I imagine this caliber in revolvers is still available but I haven’t paid attention to it for years now due to the scarcity of the M1 carbines.
A bit of little known M1 trivia: The M1 Garrand and the M1 Carbine share a common part, a stock screw.
Why would any american (truly American company) making ammo be willing to sell them this knowing what its for???Its JUST WRONG!!!!
That’s exactly what I was thinking Java!
Trying to make ammo profits genius. Everybody hurry and run out and buy any ammo you can get. They’re gonna ban it. If you don’t buy now your gonna miss the bus. I gotta get in the ammo manufacturing business. Just create scares and it sells for twice the price. People around here pay $40 for a hundred rounds of 22lr. They are on crack that shit is weak and now expensive to shoot. I went back to center fire calibers because the cost is slightly cheaper. Why not have more fun. Thing about it is what good is a gun without ammo. Make every round count. Forget high cap mags it’s a waste of ammo. Low cap high accuracy is where it’s at. Are you gonna piss your rounds away. Right now my walmart has a rollback on 40cal Winchester 100rnd box $32.50 that’s a good deal I think. 9×18 macarov and 357 sig are hard to come by easily. I wouldn’t waste my $ buying anything chambered in these.
If I was an ammo manufacturer I’d sell ammo to the gov. At 4 times the price of the public how’s that for gun control.
OK folks it is our turn to buy up as much ammo or reload as much as we can.
Does anyone know where the hell they are storing this stuff? It would be nice to know.
Sgt.
some is for training, some is for clandestine operations and the rest of the ammo is being pre-staged in desert tan 20footer shipping crates at various dhs operations center hubs across zog amerika and kept under zog fedgov control.
the federal government also has warehouses across the u.s.s.a. under u.s. marshall service security protection.
they are usually located on federal controlled secured lands. near major national highway intersections and cities.
I heard half will be stored in BO’s head. It’s huge and empty.
Sgt.
If you find out let us know please. Might have to make a run to get my tax dollars back in ammo!;-}
S.T.S.F.P. N.Reb
N.R.
I know you reload. If I were you I would pick up Reloading supplies. Roll your own. Better accuracy!
Sgt.
Thinking of a Remington 1858 army revolver with extra cylinder and a cartridge conversion cylinder that would cover anything really. Nice gun octagonal barrel.
love mine, I’ve always been a big black powder person, old weapons and cap and ball pistols
have plenty of the modern pieces .. never get enough of the historical weapons
I even like the early cartridge revolvers
next is a colt peacemaker .. cant wait
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8997A0m93o
No penetration with the 45-70 hmmm. Perhaps the diameter of the projectile is so large it spreads the energy out too much. I would be willing to bet that a .300 win mag with barnes x bullets would punch right through the 3/4 inch plate. A 30.06 might do it to with barnes. Thanks for the vid, it was informative!
it’s a heavy hitter
the shock of the hit from the .45-70 soft copper jacket lead ball will be more than enough to do the job. it’s a perfect unarmored killing round as it exhausts all it heavy bullet mass energy immediately upon the target.
causing terminal internal injuries.
if i was to target an armored target with the .45-70 i’d use a hand-loaded paper patched aerodynamic solid steel bullet.
If anyone is interested. Dicks has Federal VITAL-SHOK I ounce slugs Truball. 3.99 box of 5 shells.
Stock up.
Dicks also has Remington Slugger 1 ounce 12 ga.3.99 a box of 5 shells
The way this Administration runs a country, they are gonna need every last round to defend their way of life, which is living off the backs of everybody else.
To assume you will be allowed to roam around with a long gun in circumstances like martial law is the height of folly. ROE will probably allow for you to be engaged as an enemy combatant by an Apache that you can’t see,and be blown to pieces. No offense.It’s happened before,just in a different country.
“C”
That is why my project I’m working on now is a AR15 Pistol. Still have parts coming. Cost around $550.00 Just keep it simple, and you will find that you can build one cheap!
This to go with my Wives Tec9, and my PPS43.
On the other hand a good 6″ 357, 44Mag., or a 45LC can get you shots out to 100 yard with a little practice.
Sgt.
If we get to that point most people will be wayyyyy beyond worrying what TPTB say they can or cant do,,,
For the most recent example look for news from Donbas or surrounding areas in Ukraine, that is our future
We’re past that point now (only, by degrees, like that frog in hot water), and Americans still believe in compliance and helping the enemy by being dependent on his logistics….
What really blows is that there will be a point at which the only “news” you get will be quite official in nature. It is highly likely that websites such as this one will be inaccessible, perhaps permanently. With no real means of understanding exactly what is happening, who will know what to do? Faced with the options of potentially unsubstantiated rumor or outright propaganda…that’s a problem. Whoever controls perception dictates reality.
Here we go again with the same old scare tactic to make everybody rush out with tax refunds and buy ammo. Glad I woke up when in my early twenties and started back then “gathering unto me” a lot of things I needed, especially ammo. Never have felt pressured when we get hit by the “buy it before its gone” bullshit.
Obviously, you are wise and not a foll like the conspiracy theorists. Excellent!
You did what everyone should have done. When it was available and cheap was the time to buy and stockpile. Back in 1985-88, when Sam’s Wholesale was selling double bricks of Remington .22 ammo, I would always put one in the cart with our groceries each week for as long as they carried it. One thousand rounds for $17. Now I don’t have to worry about how scarce or how high priced it is. Same with hp rifle calibers. I guess I was prepping at the time and didn’t know it. Still buying and stashing when price is right. I did get the standard wife remark, “Don’t you think you have enough?” To which I would reply, “You never have enough!”
Some math to show how ridiculous this is:
A 150 man infantry company whose job is to attack things has a basic load of 5.56 of about 30000. The company does usually two full blown maneuver live fires a year and two platoon live fires a year with a day and night iteration which equals 240000. If they do one marksmanship range per month with 30000 that is another 360000. That totals 600000 per year for a lot of training.
I assume most DHS guys go to the range once or twice a year and I am sure they are not doing company assaults. There is no way they are using 12000000 rounds a year.
Time to disband DHS. The only thing I have seen them do around here is raid a local smoke shop owned and operated by Americans.
Military uses 5.56
The fact that they are buying 2.23 shows they are trying to dry up supply.
LOL…
Primitive gunpowder based weapons..
The future is here ..NOW…but yet to be revealed to the midless masses..
The ZOG ate my hamster.
Dicks Black Friday sale has the best ammo deals. 550rnd bricks of22lr for $19.99. They had 50 rnds of 9mm for $9.99 too a few other common calibers cheap. Bring someone and get as much as you can it’s what I do. Whatever you do don’t buy at gun store the prices are outrageous they are screwing the shooting community IMHO. Dicks Wally’s and sometimes the internet for ammo forget your local gun shop crooks.
Something I’ve been trying to find out and that no one seems to have mentioned is exactly what this specific ammo is.
.223 training ammunition is specified but that could encompass a rather broad range of loads.
Odd that the gov would be buying that much training ammo in the first place, but also odd -maybe more so- that it is just specified simply as .223 instead of 5.56 NATO (they’re actually different rounds although commonly and sometimes dangerously substituted for each other. 5.56 is the military round.).
55grain? 62 grain? 65+grain? copper jacketed polymer (actual training ammo, and rather rare)? 40 grain varmint? FMJ, hollow point or soft point in any of these? all are readily available along with a few others in .223 and it should be specified somewhere unless it is a blanket order for anything and everything available which should raise some interesting questions that need answring.
Government contracts are usually very specific for stuff like this but I find the information lacking here (5.56 would imply and carry the exact NATO specifications, but not .223 which is a more civilian multi-purpose caliber).
If anyone knows this or where the information can be found an answer would be greatly appreciated.
A game I used to play,gun golf- shoot golf balls at 100-200 yards. Also spent shotgun shells. Once you can shoot that consistently not much else matters. My how a golf ball does fly when hit by 30-06….
I’m with you, Logi – 30-06, second best cartridge ever designed, second only to the .375 H&H mag.
Best rifle, ever – M1 Garand.
Get some.
I like how they think they control the game with .223 and 5.56
new game doesnt even need that ammo,, or even anything like it
6.2 million rounds is a lot of ammo.
In recent times, what was the most rounds fired in any engagement with Law Enforcement.
Besides Randy Weaver and the Davidians at Waco. The most I can tell is when two Bank Robbers in Body Armor went to War with the Police in California. The robbers have FULL AUTO AK’s and were using drums. One robber killed by head shot. The other was injured in lower legs and the killed in subsequent fire by police, if I remember correctly.
So is it how many people shooting guns. Are the
weapons semi auto, bolt action or pump action. The size of the magazine. How much beating from the recoil can you handle. How many weapons used the same ammo. Can help you determine how much you may need for each fire fight. Then how many fire fights do you expect to survive.
How many rds do I expect to expend per firefight? Just 1rd. How many firefights do I expect to survive?
Just one more.
Most likely none,,,,
When things get real, people die and bleed,
Tip tap typing away and expressing bravado is nothing more than that, Bravado
When the shit hits all bets are off and there is no way to know the outcome,
Best bet,,,,,
Evade at all costs
Direct engagement may well mean death,
One shot from cover and concealment, then move if able to do so undetected,
Anyone who believes they can weather a firefight against a dozen or even half a dozen mil/leo or even raiders for that reason, is kidding themselves, they may live, but i doubt they get away un scathed, thats just not how it goes down, ask any vet who has been in a few firefights, when its one or two against 6-12 the one or two usually dont walk away
Kulafarmer.
Ahhhhhh. Then why buy all this ammo. Instead of a thousand rounds per person you may need only 120 rounds.
Maybe the younger you are, the more you buy into the hype of needing large amounts of ammo. Extend this out to all the weapons you need and all the gadgets that go with them. Night vision, Leopold scopes. Infra red, Warning devices. All for not with one bullet in you head.
Like the Talking Heads said. ‘We’re on a road to nowhere”.
101 reasons why gadgets are just gadgets,,
People think because they have this sight, or that NV or this body armor they will have the upper hand,
Is just bullshit,
A kid with a 22 can put a round in your forehead and it would be lights out.
Or one bloodline shaft with a muzzy broadhead right below the junction of the neck, same thing,
Evade
Escape
We really are on a road to nowhere, that is what i dont like about all this, i got what i got but for some things count me out
Kula.
I have to side with you. Many preppers who have been at this site know that it’s not there. We are not at any level that could be functional against any organized and outfitted force. Oh we have come up with some great ideas for this or that situation. But it is not there. I am no tactician but what things I read here at times. Hmmmm.
“Loosing My Religion” By E.L.O.
R.E.M. Not E.L.O.
Yes, I’m loosing it. ;0)
Your dating yourself friend!
Oldsheimers
I gots it too!
Yea, i gotta laugh at the folks buying thousands of rounds of miscellaneous ammo,,,
Its all different, not the same POI for any of it,
Personally shooting is a hobby, reloading, shooting, pushing the limit, that said you wont find thousands of anything other than loose components in my shop,
Im doing this for fun and because i can and its interesting, not because i want to win some un winnable war.
Kula.
Yeah, we are not short on Bravado. Odd, I have been thinking of making a small periscope of all things.
slingshot, I thought of that too lol. Periscopes are cheap on ebay, check them out!
Agreed Kula on the evading. Like the saying goes,”Don’t let your rifle get you into something it can’t get you out of.” Most of the .22 ammo that I bought (cheap) through the years is meant for barter(if I’m here for that)Gonna have to survive the “turning” if it takes place.
Kula, I agree too. Evasion is the smart thing to do!
Patriot, A .22 is great for low noise small game getter and can be suppressed easily. Also good for trapping 2 legged animals 😉
Actually, you are close in your “remembering”. The one suspect fatally shot himself in the head, to prevent his own capture and prosecution, after their “raid” went bad. The second bled out after being shot, in the legs(femoral bleed out), he had removed his homemade armor on his legs to assist him in getting away. At the time, no LAPD officer “knew” exactly how many armed suspects there were involved in that goat-rope. Several LAPD officers were seriously wounded, many later had to retire from their injuries, and the original monies stolen earlier by those suspects, has NEVER been recovered.(more than 2.3 million dollars)
At that point in time, no law enforcement agency had ever gone up against determined suspects who were WILLING to fight it out and were prepared, with armor and (illegally converted) full-auto weapons, with backup full auto weapons, just in case. The North Hollywood shoot-out was a huge wake-up call to law enforcement, not only in California(most populous state) but nationwide.
Your last paragraph is the most critical for us all to consider.(spot on, well done)
Slingshot I expect to die in every firefight until I do.
PO’P.
Words to say before I get into a firefight.
“This is it, no turning back now”.
Might get to say it a few times. ;0)
So the way I see it all this ammo was purchased with OUR money. So really all we need to know is where to pick it up at and a few of you guys with pickup trucks. Lol!
Re: “the feds have purchased at least 2.11 billion rounds of ammunition since April 2012.”
I believe more people are “waking up” every day. These huge ammo purchases by “Homeland Security” and other federal agencies should have every American concerned.
The past few years has seen significant increases in food prices and in ammo. Those newer to prepping and younger people may have a more difficult time getting prepared.
Actually, an RFP is not an official purchase order nor a contract, the providers have to prove that they CAN fullfill said contract, IF, the government goes through the life of the contract in its’ entirety.
To date, there has NOT been 2.11 billions rounds of ammunition purchased, only the RFPs have been issued.
BIG difference, let’s be factual first and you are correct. We must continue our own personal preparations regardless of the hype that comes out of the Federal government.
We are giving our federal employees FAR too much “credit” for intelligence, capabilities and professionalism.
Facts? They don’t need no stinkin’ facts to post on SHTF.
As you well know coach 🙂
Buying ammo on both sides is alot like the Russians and NATO flying bombers close to each others airspace. I like to hear that someone is concerned about the people buying ammo because our vote sure doesn’t seem to get their attention anymore.
No need to worry, .223 & 5.56 is like sand on a beech in texas. Over 1,000,000,000,000 rounds are here. We piss and sh….t 223 down here. There is this prophet, think his name is Henry Grouver. He has been very accurate with his dreams. He said that the foreign soldiers will flee Texas and and other states of the overwhelming fire power of the break away military and patriots. .223 is like sand on beach in Texas. Those Jihadist have no idea what the American white man is about. Any of you jihadist and chinese soldiers reading my post. Since i am martial artist, i dont recomend that you attempt to capture me in a public place. I will respond, if you make that attempt. Most of the local cops i hang with are on to your plans. You are in for one nasty life ending supprise if you think that you will be coming here to chop off our heads, rape our women kill us with firing squads, that you had the US goverment ligalized recenty in Utah. Invade us, our local Cops will light your azzes up in the streets. If you all think that by buying up all the .233 & 5.56, means that a Hunger game future is installed for the people, you are in for one hell of a nasty, horrific sickening supprise. Knives, spears, daggers, blades, machetes, hammers, guns, bows, etc, and every type of weapon has been purchased, cammo, body armor, you name it, bought. I have seen all of these things sold of the shelves 100 times between Jan 2013 and now April 2015. When the attack commenses by the indiginous traitorous cabal military, and the chinese, and UN, who cant wait to activate who live in our cities, and then cross over the mexico border, who can wait to rape women, kill us, execute us in fireing squads, you all are going to run like hell. The reponse from the populous, the shootings, the chopping, the mauling, the carving, the decapitation, limb removals, hanging, etc. The crunching, smashing, stabbing, cutting, etc. You are entering the wrong state. My trends research is finding things that are not working in your favor. I do not advocate violence, however i must warn invading parties, to beware of not being captured by the citizenry. Now that the walmarts are transforming to scan patriots & whites, have chinese soldiers grab you, take you to the back of the store, put you in trucks off to camps, thinking that people are just going to accept this, your highly mistaken. Half the hillie billies from East Texas dont even brush teeth, will all the the teeth falling out of their friking heads, with blue, yellow, brown, and green teeth, and the rest of them missing. When one smiled at me i saw inside his mouth, damn i said, yet he is buying ammo telling me he is geting ready for war. Yet they buy ammo and hunt all day long, while i am still trying to figure out how they eat the deer they hunt since they have no teeth. Trust me you invading soldiers, you need to abord the mission. Save your selves while you can. Good luck when you get here, you will be needing every last ounce of it. By the way, when the scientist told me that 90% of preppers dint make it, he was including the invading armies. They became extinct in 3 years.
You shot any cred in your first line. You do not have a trillion rds of any kind of ammo. I call BS
Oil related lay-offs reach over 100,000
To add to what Kulafarmer said about all the gadgets and body armor, N.V. etc.
It is like entrapping ourselves into a false sense of security. As those who claim they are ready with one gallon of water, flashlight and a few oatmeal bars, for the hurricane. How many would know the weight of a thousand rounds in a 50 cal. can. Or the weight of a single sandbag times 100. The work and material needed to put in a garden.
Then have some one come try and take it. Government or civilian.
I have an Idea what Kula is thinking. Change in the air?
Won’t know till we get there. Where ever there is.
We really need to see the big picture when it comes to survival. I was watching C-Span last week and there was a show with a panel of “progressives” (commies) discussing the future of elections in the US. They were gloating over the fact that the US population only has to become 2% more non-white to eliminate the possibility of a conservative ever being elected to the presidency again. And they are correct.
Yep, let them have that.
Then they can be broke ass hand to mouth beggers like the rest of the socialist shit holes.
That’s why guns, and any other unsustainable modern contraption, are obsolete for the people. The enemy (the elites and their government over others)- on whose munitions, provisions, quarters, finance and other logistics– the people have allowed themselves to be dependent, is able to control the people by denying them access to everything on which the people make themselves dependent. The people’s denial to their enemy of those means of empowerment for the elites and their government is the people’s strategic weapon to use in their defense of themselves against those who wage war against and rule over them– if allowed and even helped by the people’s dependence on and compliance with them to be victorious over the people.
” The bullets will be used by U.S. Customs and Border Protection agents nationwide for “training” purposes”
Dang. They sure need a lot of bullets to ‘train’ with. Especially since they are inept and don’t seem to care anything about who crosses the border or stopping any illegals from crossing in to the country. Why do they even need a bullet? Strange. Very strange.
In reading the above post, all I can say is, thank goodness y’all weren’t in George washington’s army. How many trolls are on here trying to persuade us to give up before they even come for our guns. Dangit boys. Grow a pair.
The bast,s can’t even multiply. 12.6×5=63. Stupid proggers.
12.6 a year, that’s all?
They’ll need more than that, with your tax dollars hard at work.