This article was originally published by Selco at The Organic Prepper
Editor’s Note: We’ve all seen checklists all over the internet of “supplies to hoard” for when the SHTF, and things that the stores will run out of, and lists of items that you should store to set yourself up in a nice little black market post-apocalyptic business. But…a guy who’s actually been through SHTF has a completely different philosophy. Based on his experiences in the Balkan War, Selco doesn’t have much use for those lists. In this article, he sheds light on what you should REALLY store for trade and barter purposes. Be sure to join our discussion about this over in the forum! ~ Daisy
Selco’s Guide to What You Should REALLY Store for Trade and Barter
Discussions about trade and usage of trade are great because sooner or later when SHTF, you’ll find yourself in a situation to be involved in a trade.
Now this sentence above sounds great and you may think: “OK, let’s just store a whole bunch of items for trade”.
But what items?
Then you may look for info what is going to be missing once when SHTF and you may find out that (eventually) everything going to be gone and missing once when SHTF really bad.
So it is not about what is gonna be gone when SHTF when it comes to trade. It is much more about what makes sense to have stored for trade.
But since the whole trade topic got pretty much “hijacked” from the fiction industry, there are a lot of myths there, so let’s start from some common sense ideas first.
When you should trade during SHTF?
The answer is pretty weird and paradoxical.
The answer is that you should not trade, or you should avoid trade because the process is dangerous because it involves usually unknown people during a prolonged event where there is no law and order.
In a more serious event, it is one more level up in danger. It is an event where there is no law and order and there are clear signs that law and order are not coming back any time soon.
So, again you are involved in a process where you are holding valuable resources and showing them to another group of people in a time where there is no punishment from the system for the folks who want to shoot you because of those resources.
So it is very simple why trade should be avoided.
But…
Since it is going to be impossible, here is what you are going to do for a start:
You will avoid any trade until you have useful information about what is happening around you (in your city for example).
That means you will try to gather info who is who in the new world around you, who is more dangerous, and who hold what resources for trade.
Eventually, you will gather the information. In a worst-case scenario, you will gather it “through the grapevine.”
The first period of SHTF is chaotic
Every SHTF is most chaotic in its first periods, when there is no clear idea where are the biggest dangers are coming from, and that period is not really good or safe for going out and looking for someone who can give you antibiotics for your sick kid.
Do not get me wrong. Later periods are going to be maybe even more dangerous when it comes to the level of violence because then people usually realize there is no law coming back. But also usually it will be less chaotic in a way that you will have some kind of idea who is really dangerous, who is good for trade and who is not, who holds resources, where is the guy who own black market deals, etc.
And the solution of how to avoid trade in that chaotic period of no real information is simple – by good prepping.
For me, the point of having preps at home is not to survive the whole SHTF event. The point is to survive the event up to the moment when you can have a clear clue about what to do next without getting your self over-exposed.
In trade, that may mean simply bugging in and staying low and having enough food, meds, water, and ammo to last until you at least figure where is where and who is who.
If you have stashed for more then that is even better.
Pressure and misinformation are the biggest enemies of a good trade.
Often on my real courses, I do exercises of trade with students, and out of 5 students, usually, 3 of them fail on trade.
One might be fooled by friendship talk with me and take a pack of cigarettes which was full of small pebbles and pieces of tissues, simply because he trusted me too much.
Another may give up too much information to me because out of the friendly trade, one unknown guy shows up and started to question him, a guy that he did not even spot (and he should have).
Or others were simply were ambushed because they did not check the trade place in the correct way, because they rushed there…
In real life, it may be you who is forced to go out in a really dangerous situation because there is no other choice. Your kid simply needs antibiotics very hard and quickly.
You were under pressure, without time to get enogh information.
The traders
In any kind of event, there are going to be people who will eventually show up and they will control the black market, or the flow of goods in some way in the region.
Sometimes preppers (I see this on courses) prepare in a way that they are going to be those people. They are storing in their houses items strictly planned for the black market. In other words, they plan to own the market, to dictate prices, to “survive and thrive” in a way.
Now, the majority of folks who read my articles and who attend my courses are average people, so my advice there is, “No, you will not own the black market, and no, you will not “survive and thrive.” Actually, most probably you’ll die soon and not by old age.”
There are organizations today in every region of the word and in every city who already own the market when it comes to stuff like drugs, illegal weapons, and similar.
They are in business for a long time, with great experience in violence, too.
Usually when SHTF, those kinds of organizations will “show up.” They are here already, we just mostly do not see them. And they will own the black market of things that are in demand like food and meds.
You as a average prepper do not have a chance there.
Not unless we are talking about an organization bigger than the 100 preppers with great skills, weaponry, and brutality too.
You can be a small trader, trading items for items that you have in your storage for items that you really need.
You are already at a bit of an advantage here, because you have storage at all since you are a prepper in a first place.
There are some small advices what to trade in one of the previous interview articles.
Basically, be prepared to trade items that are already stored for your use, with some exceptions. You personally do not need 10,000 disposable lighters, but you could store them for trade because they’re cheap, easy to carry, and easy to store…and the same with condoms, spices, etc.)
But do not forget that you are a prepper, so you are ahead of the rest of folks when it comes to smart prepping and trading so think about the following.
Your own circumstances and surroundings
What would be a really cool mental exercise now is to look around you at your area and think about items that may be really cool and cheap to store. They should be based on your own surroundings so they will have great value when SHTF, and at the same time that not too many people will have the items when the SHTF.
For example, if you are living in a city with a river close, maybe it makes sense to have a whole bunch of small colapsable water canisters because there s gonna be a lot of carrying from that river.
Or think from the point of psychology. If there is a great culture of coffee drinking maybe there is sense in owning big amounts of raw coffee and the means to roast it.
Or if it is a tea-drinking culture, maybe you can have a bunch of appropriate plants in your backyard before everybody else thinks of it.
I can not give you specific advice on what to store. I am projecting things here from my sourroundings, but remember you should not go by just a list of “100 Items That Are Gonna Disappear When SHTF” or even worse just big storage full of everything unless you have a huge force to protect it.
What will you store?
What works in your area? With what, in small amounts, can you achieve more? Over in the forum, I’ll be discussing this topic in depth with you.
***
About the Author
Selco survived the Balkan war of the 90s in a city under siege, without electricity, running water, or food distribution. In his online works, he gives an inside view of the reality of survival under the harshest conditions. He reviews what works and what doesn’t, tells you the hard lessons he learned, and shares how he prepares today. He never stopped learning about survival and preparedness since the war. Regardless what happens, chances are you will never experience extreme situations like Selco did. But you have the chance to learn from him and how he faced death for months. Real survival is not romantic or idealistic. It is brutal, hard and unfair. Let Selco take you into that world. Read more of Selco’s articles here: https://shtfschool.com/blog/ And take advantage of a deep and profound insight into his knowledge and advice by signing up for the outstanding and unrivaled online course. More details here: https://shtfschool.com/survival-boot-camp/
Please feel free to share any information from this article in part or in full, giving credit to the author and including a link to The Organic Prepper and the following bio.
Daisy is a coffee-swigging, gun-toting, homeschooling blogger who writes about current events, preparedness, frugality, and the pursuit of liberty on her websites, The Organic Prepper and DaisyLuther.com She is the author of 4 books and the co-founder of Preppers University, where she teaches intensive preparedness courses in a live online classroom setting. You can follow her on Facebook, Pinterest, and Twitter,.
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Pepper, and other spices.
There has always been a market for spices and there always will be no matter the circumstances and pepper is probably the most sought after among them since it’s demand is pretty much universal worldwide.
Pepper is currently at a low price wise (at least in the US, don’t know about elsewhere) but consider that it, at one time, has traded for as much as an ounce of gold for an ounce of pepper. The scarcer it is the more it is worth.
Other spices as well, all of them were worth a fortune during the middle ages in the thriving spice trade and will be again if we should actually suffer a real and lasting breakdown in civilization. They’re easy to store in a small amount of space and easily hidden from marauders as well.
If it can be grown locally, grow it.
Since many spices can have a medicinal use, growing potential medicines increases one’s value and knowing how to use them increases one’s value again.
brains and mad skills could make someone invaluable.
Anonymous, excellent points. People are so used to eating prepackaged foods today that they don’t know just how important spices are to have around.
I was just going over my main SHTF recipes, making sure that I’m not short on any ingredients and I spotted a few spices that I need to get more of.
Anonymous, you should change your handle to “The Pepper Prepper”!
Peppergrass grows all over in Kentucky and it’s poor man’s pepper. The reason pepper was so in demand especially during medieval times was to cover up the fact that meat was often rancid.
Shepherd’s purse is just as good as peppergrass but it also is mucilaginous (like slippery elm) and is a miracle cure with heavy bleeding.
Salt. If I had the room, I would buy a ton of it. Literally. Also salt blocks, the kind used for animals. Why would I buy 2000 pounds of salt? It is an ancient preservative. When there is no power, meat and fish can be cured with salt.
There were times when salt and gold were equivalent.
That’s right PD. Salt, Sugar, Rice, Alcohol and I’m sure others can fill in something else. Keep old clothes that maybe too small or large that others could buy from you. These are things that you can store IF you can stay where you are at.
Have a personal supply of Red Pepper, to put on the “mystery meat” you will come across.
JustMe, Red Pepper is also great to spice up Navy Beans in a slow cooker and/or White Rice. Protect your investment in spices by storing them in vacuum sealed mason jars.
Remember what they said in Dune, “the spice must flow!”
As long as the spice does’nt the eyes glow…
Kroger/Smith’s stores have a 10 for 10 dollar shelf of spices. Stock up! Salt is cheap so I buy Realsalt. Waaay better than store shit salt! They sell it in 25 lb bags online. I also scored a 1lb thing of black pepper for 4 bucks at Kroger. Ebay has bulk herbs/spices dirt cheap. Quit shopping/supporting the enenmy (amazon)! Store a shitload of sugar and yeast (need I say why?) sugar is also a cheap caloric food (use cane sugar). Stainless steel pots from 2 gal. to 5 gal. are very useful and at the dollar store. Beans and rice will really suck with no spices. Don’t buy ground flour, it will go bad! Instead buy sealed buckets of whole wheat or whatever grains you use and get a flour mill (wheat lasts for decades). Get a distiller made for moonshine, you can purify water for batteries and make alcohol too (waaaay cheaper than store bought). Educate yourself on herbal remedies, alcohol production, reloading, tobacco farming, etc! It’s only hard if you don’t know what your doing….. so know how to do it!
Some of those cheap $1 spices are made in China. Make sure and read the label.
Spices are a luxury and not a necessity. How about stock up on about 400 to 500 cigarette lighters.. Multi-use and every body needs fire to cook, heat, light, and firing up that cigar. I bought about 400 lighters and I use them multiple times a day, living at my Off Grid BOL. Online you can buy 50 lighters for about $10 to $13 and some shipping. Buy $100 worth and be the barter king on your block. For just .20 center per lighter, go out on the street and into bars, or other places and sell the lighters for $1.00 each and profit 400% per lighter sold.
I hired this 24 YO girl to do some work on my property, in addition to her pay, I gave her 50 lighters and challenged her to sell all 50 in 3 days for at least $1.00 each, and she did. Congrats to her and just learned business 101. How to make a profit.
We had this discussion before… cheap lighters are just that… CHEAP. Get bic lighters on ebay 50 for 50 bux. Great and DEPENDABLE! If you offered me one of your crap lighters for a buck or a Bic for 2 bucks I would buy the Bic! But then I like quality, durability, dependability, esp. in shtf.
Genius I agree 100%, I spend a lot of time in the Mountains of Wyoming building campfires and fires just for practice and the fun of fire building, I also practice other methods. That being said, I’m never without a lighter and when it comes to disposable lighters Bic can’t be beat, I use one many times and carry one in my pocket for months on end and it always works. A couple of months ago I was at the store at the checkout and decided to buy a pack of lighters and instead of Bic’s there was only Scripto so I bought them, what a mistake. The slightest breeze and they won’t light and in just a few weeks the fluid was gone and had hardly even been used. It amazes me how many people travel in the wilderness and never even carry a method to build a fire. So when the SHTF Flick your Bic, your life could depend on it. Trekker Out
So I can get 5 lighters to your one BIC, that you cannot adjust the flame. I can take the metal guard off turn the wheel and make a 10 to 12″ torch out if it which would be real important on a Mt Hike and its windy.
The fuel in each lighter is about the same. I have a 5 times redundancy rate, and out of maybe 75 lighters I may have had just 2 to 3 fails in the middle of the life span of the lighter. So I have field tested this and this is my results. If you like to pay 500% mark up for a lesser lighter go fir it skippy. And you cant even see the amount of the fluid left in a lighter. what a rip off,, You don’t even know if the lighter is out of fluid or it stopped working and you think it ran out of fuel. BICS Suck. Sorry.
If you had been using a Bic you wouldn’t have used 75 lighters, doubt that you use a lighter very much down there in the swamp unless you smoke. It’s very easy to check the fuel level, just shine a light up through the bottom of the lighter. Trekker Out
If the SHTF, I reckon you would be lucky just to harvest what you have produced.
What others have is liable not to be worth trading and there is a limited window in which the harvest comes in based on season, elevation, and rainfall. For example, when can walnuts be harvested locally?
Historically salt was harvested slowly by evaporation NOT heating unless there was no other option. How far away is the coast, the salt lick, the salt mine, or the alkai flat? Those are the four options.
Don’t trade. Don’t barter. Don’t sell. All that is fantasy. Don’t prep more than will fit in your vehicle.
Maybe don’t prep more than will fit on your back?
When/If, calamity occurs. When/If, a terrible event occurs. Your best bet is to LEAVE. Drive, FlY, bike, RUN, walk, crawl, whatever is necessary. You Leave. Don’t wait for “official” instruction!!! Don’t believe media!! Don’t believe anyone. Media-Politicians-Government-officials all LIE. They will calm you. Assure you that all is ok.
OPEN your eyes. If it is bad? RUN to safety out of area. Keep running until safe area. Leave troubles behind.
If it is bad YOU LEAVE IMMEDIATLY. Get out of the effected area/danger zone.
Don’t wait. Just go go go go go go.
Be the first out of the gate. Don’t wait!!!
I don’t know if it will really be possible to do all of those things. EMP, cars are screwed, going NO-where for example. Plus, most of us average folk have nowhere to really go in all honestly. I am bugging in and if that fails, time for a 10mm snack du jure’
If you have nothing but your life and health.
You are wealthy.
Leave it all behind. Keep your life.
Never ever have that snack. You NEVER give up. No matter how bad it gets. You fight. Never give up friends. Often it is very bad night before daylight comes to warm you up.
I lost Everything several times. Landed with nothing.
Now life is fine. I love America. Nothing but opportunity.
If you are on the West Coast, you may want to have a Rad-Meter, before you extract anything from the Pacific Ocean, even salt.
We stopped eating ALL seafood after fukashima and gulf coast shit. Fookin asians can gobble up whats left that hasn’t washed up on shore dead. Just avoid it all and be safe.
X2!
So far only Selco ( although Daisy may have breached it ONCE as a serious commentary) has ever actually addressed the same issue that I keep on repeating over and over again about SHTF and after…Human Psychology and reality, and needing to be flexible and smart enough to LET GO OF ARTIFICIAL MORALITY constraints that you have because after SHTF event….humans WILL ABANDON morals as an excess of civility that no LONGER APPLIES!!!!
If you go forward after the SHTF event and operate thinking in terms of polite society and morality, you will DIE QUICKLY AND VIOLENTLY because you fail to understand that the mental state you operated in prior to the event IS GONE and no longer applies.
Mentally masturbate all you want about SHTF /WROL, but understand that you have to DISCARD the discussion as meaningless HOPIUM, because that is NOT how people think and act when the artificial civility goes poof and disappears. Better adapt that after SHTF/WROL you will not be trading for sh* UNLESS your area is relatively stable MONTHS or YEARS after the event. For the first 90 days a faux civility will exist, but as more and more of the people hit the end of the survival threshold of a standard of living they were accustomed to..civility ends. The rule of thumb is 9 meals or 72 hours. After that POTABLE SAFE water and health RUN OUT on the timer and all pretenses END. The BEST ADAPTATION you can learn is psychology and mental awareness and STRATEGIC PLANNING for tactical operations. You cannot be a Tactical planner or strategic leader is you cannot grasp SIMPLE BASIC HUMAN PSYCHOLOGY…End of Story. You cannot know YOURSELF and certainly cannot understand and ANTICIPATE OTHERS if you cannot grasp HOW PEOPLE ARE AND ACT and see how they telegraph their intentions prior to acting.
Most normal people are naive, look at Sweden. Their indoctrinated pathological altruism delusions are earning the entire country the Darwin Award.
People who think things will be civil when SHTF, will be the first ones gone. It is already happening today, at an increasing pace all over what used to be Western Civilization…
That means you MUST be able to easily let go of your cognitive dissonance and brain washing and programming society has forced on you, and it particularly INCLUDES THE ARTIFICIAL MORALITY you live by. Survival has NO MORALS, and the “moral high ground” is the dirt on the top of a corpse that once tried to live through and by morals that SIMPLY DO NOT APPLY, especially after SHTF/WROL event.
Deplorable Neal Jensen;
You Sir hit the nail exactly on the head, 100% correct.
You must live in the city Neal.
I believe Selco’s world view and your’s are skewed by the same point of reference. In Selco’s writings he is always referring to trade with persons he does not know being dangerous. He refers to the “black market”. He comes from a communistic background. None of these apply in America except the inner city. If America was to experience a collapse then there would be no such thing as the “black market” – only truly free trade. If you live in any rural or semi-rural area in America your neighbors are not suddenly going to turn into homicidal maniacs if the juice goes out. You will not be trading with strangers. If the entire country turned savage without government “rule” then this country would never have been settled in the first place. People tend to work together. We see it every time there is a natural disaster. Sure there are a few looters (mostly urban) but in a long term situation, these types would eventually be killed off.
I appreciate Selco’s stories and tips but he was living through the aftermath of the collapse of communism. I believe it has very little analog to economic troubles in America. Just look to the great depression for guidance. Nothing like what Selco experienced happened here.
I am not going to abandon morality if the SHTF and I don’t believe my fellow citizens will either. This does not mean I won’t shoot some asshole who tries to harm my family but a violent mentality will not be society’s dominant feature. People will grow their crops, raise their family, trade at the farmer’s market, etc. Life will go on and without the intrusion of the bureaucracy, in many ways it will be superior to what we have now.
No, I don’t live in the city. But you make the fatal error of thinking that rural folks are different. They are NOT, different motivators is all, but in the end, rural folks are more hearty and quicker to properly estimate how people will react. But to make the mistake that they are wholly different will get you killed just as fast if you were in the city. the only difference is the density of the population, not the difference in psychology.
You may be right but history does not agree with you.
Stuart, I agree with you in part. I live in a small mountain community and around some good people that I also don’t believe will be quick to lose their morality. At the same time I am making a mental note of those that I believe just might. Red Leader has a valid point. tweekers are everywhere now it seems.
In many locations, what used to be rural, is now Tweekerville, and Tweekers are very dangerous.
well said, beat me to it. Morality has its own value.
“He comes from a communistic background.”
The 10 Planks are in America.
So is informal business.
Stuart,
Well stated.
Most of what the author(s) writes about applies to urban areas.
Even the most primitive of societies have codes of conduct, especially where everyone is armed. America has the highest per capita gun ownership in the the world. I suspect we will have a very polite society in rural areas outside the cities. Cities as we know are notorious for disarming as much of the law abiding population as possible, thus allowing governments and Thugs free run.
RELLIK
Us country folk ae prepared and so we think differently than city folk
One further thing, nothing scares me more than city fol, with a weapon and a large amount of ammo. We use our guns to harvest game, and we are familiar with them. City folds know little about guns, and only time they have used them is when they first bought them and went to a firing range. Things we were taught, consider any gun to be loaded, or when you climb over or go through a fence, among others
You make the extremely fatal error, that you do not seem to get the invasion going on, as we speak. Do you think the nice illegal immigrants who do your yard-work will maintain your morality, when SHTF.
In America, as in what are the remnants of Western Civilization, most White people are unable to face what is happening around them. You are slated for replacement. Most of the “migrants” happen to military aged males, not nice little families who are going to help you farm, and trade.
You think the “looters will be killed off”, based on how people act after a storm? If so, you really need a reality check.
Stuart, excellent and realistic comment !
Hard for em to grasp any of you still believe this Selco junk.
Stuart, the “Great Depression Template” was good as long as the underlying philosophy of the country existed, namely Christianity. The country has by and large abandoned it’s religion, in most of the urban areas, which covers 55 percent of the country. I would say Selco’s version of operating tactics cover that much of the country.
After all, the simple folks in the 1930’s would never have turned en masse to socialism and Marxism, like the Democrats have. The people who classify themselves as Progressives will empower the government to roll over everyone who lets them and confiscate anything it wants to redistribute to Marxist Urbanites. This skews the rurales from wanting to help others. The rural areas also have many socialists living among them nowadays (anyone calling themselves democrat). landowners in particular are on the dole with CRP and lucrative conservation program checks.
This isn’t your grandpa’s country anymore. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not going to be one of those who loose their morals when SHTF, but the country has changed and will not operate in a “Great Depression template anymore, because of the semi-dominance of the Marxists.
I think a lot of people fantasize too much about Mad Max.
I can’t speak for where you live, but where I live neighbors are not going to start killing each other.
Stuart nailed it. The prepondance of folks are clueless urbanites and neither react or respond. The extremely paranoid overreact.
Our ancestors responded. Why? One cannot react to what you needed to do as things in Nature are not readily available but are harvested or mature in a brief season. This means our ancestors had to carefully plan even if was just making sure they had enough pectin made from apples to make preserves, or if they had gathered enough jimson weed to treat some asthma when it was needed.
Reacting is like being a fool who is not ready and surrounded by fires to put out. Try just reacting when playing chess…and you will always be in check.
Everyone dies, theres no escaping that fact. The big question is, do you want to live with no morals and die, or live with purpose and die?
Admittedly its a tough question- how much of your humanity are you willing to give up to live?
Kill for medicine for your kid? Kill for luxury goods? Kill and eat another human being?
I’m not going to pass any judgement on anyone, but I will say the quality of your life, mental health, and conscience will ultimately be more important that the duration of your life.
You hint in the direction of what the masses of the unprepped and already lacking morality will do MUCH SOONER THAN the most sane and responsible people. But you have to grip the fact that the actual population of prepped and responsible people with morals will not be the FIRST ONES who “Kill for medicine for your kid? Kill for luxury goods? Kill and eat another human being?” Do you prep because of other preppers or do you prep because you know netter survival wise to prepare for better quality of living after the SHTF/WROL.. while the unprepared go feral? How fast do you degrade into the feral pack? What is it that determines how fast you get there? 9 Meals / 72 hours for the unprepared….That’s how long you have to get your mental state straight BEFORE the rest of human psychology around you goes feral.
deplorable neal jensen, that is an excellent point. I have said many times that understanding human behavior and the ability to out think others will be very important. The “wheat berry storing crowd” scoffed at the notion. If you plan to stay alive you better be able to read, understand, THINK, and anticipate human actions. If you are not prepared to meet or exceed levels of violence used by others you won’t need a lot of stuff stored.
Exactly. Just because you have “stuff” doesn’t insulate you from the “rest”.. your insulation and safeguarding of your preps all hinges on thinking two steps ahead of those who will take your life and stuff because you hesitate weighing artificial constraints other have already shed.
Anonymous, I have been making this point for years now because I have seen it all up front and personal.
You are only as safe as you are willing and capable to protect yourself. And sitting on the couch getting fatter is not a solution to anything except a heart attack. All the talk and hot air will not ever change that fact ! Your mindset is always the key to actually being prepared for anything. That mindset is what causes you to take the correct actions to be prepared. Not hoarding or talk or anything, except your own confidence in your own abilities. Everything else is bullshit.
Downtoearth, Hot air….yeah, I see folks who boast about all the “big work” they will do. They brag what kind of gun, caliber, bullet weight, muzzlevelocity, blah, blah,….I would never depend on a loudmouth as they are always among the first to run and hide.
See the posts I made on the google leaked emails article above. Some good ideas on how to protect what you have.
It would be worth knowing how the Argentines set up their barter clubs as that’s your most likely way for doing a “farmer’s market / trade day”. It was verty successful, but that is purely for economic collapse not WROL. Look it up.
Maranatha, I also believe that communities will set up secure trading locations that will function in all but the worst environments. We have one of these every month where I live and it’s a great way to get to know your neighbors!
That is music to my ears. Sometimes you pay it forward because someone’s “harvest” will come in later. The same goes for country folk and barn raising because sometimes your trade is labor. And it might be helping some widow.
There was a cowboy movie where the citizen told the gunman that he had a gun too. The gunman said that the difference is that he was prepared to shoot and did not have to consider anything. Whereas the citizen would hesitate a fraction of a second and that fraction was all the time needed for the gunman to shot.
Like in the other posts, it will kill or be killed and if you consider morals then you are too slow and will be killed.
IF survival has no morals, then our ancestors had no morals. Thus we know this is FALSE.
In fact, one of the earliest ideas that developed was hospitality to sojourners in which one shares essential resources. Likewise trade involves negotiation through diplomacy to swap resources.
Our ancestors did NOT petpetually commit violence against strangers nor wage war. Why? The cost is too high as well as being extremely risky.
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels. Mark 8:36-38
You can quote all the scripture you want to, but Dead is dead. There will be the quick and those who hesitated and were not mentally prepared who will be dead. There is a huge difference between your argument; “IF survival has no morals, then our ancestors had no morals. Thus we know this is FALSE. In fact, one of the earliest ideas that developed was hospitality to sojourners in which one shares essential resources. Likewise trade involves negotiation through diplomacy to swap resources. “
Where we will be AFTER the SHTF/WROL. Your example is where all of society evolved up out of the SAME environment and yes, worked together to grow together.
You used a FALSE EXAMPLE…
MY ARGUMENT is that IN THE CURRENT STANDARDS OF LIVING in the CURRENT WORLD people are accustomed to the lifestyle and ease of live due to technology and excess… HOW DO THEY REACT WHEN THEY ALL LOSE THOSE COMFORTS AND EASE AND FOOD AND WATER TOGETHER, ALL PLUNGED INTO DESPERATE CONDITIONS AND THERE IS NO COMING CAVALRY TO THE RESCUE?
YOU are not using relevant comparisons. Granted LOCAL EMERGENCIES and disasters people react BADLY though most are civil BECAUSE HELP IS COMING TO THE RESCUE….But that mentality WILL evaporate instantly if the entire country is hit by bank runs, power out EMP SHTF WROL at the same time?
All will be scrambling to go back to and maintain their previous standard of health and living, but the situation will not resolve faster than the decline will happen..Then what?
Survival of the fittest most adaptable and vicious WILL BE the new order. Cling to what you wish, doesn’t matter to me, one way or another. I deal with reality, not wishes, I deal with proven observable HUMAN psychology, not fantasy. There in is the difference. Do I have morals, HELL YES I do, but I am smart enough to know better that they are meaningless when civility is gone.
NO Hoss. You presume that people will lose their marbles and will all be like crazed zombies. Instead, most will die off merely because they can’t find clean water. Things rarely just go to Hell in a handbasket.
Urban centers will be crazy and largely due to criminals and excons. But country folks are country folks. Sure we have some criminals here, but I reckon some cowboy justice will fix that just to produce stability…just like in history.
You can’t help everybody, but what does Jesus say to do? That is tempered by the Biblical maxim that “each must carry his own load”.
You just made my point for me because in that short time frame between the actual shtf event and the worst mass portion of the die off occurs(weeks through the first few months after) is when the most feral vicious activity will occur. This is when people are most desperate and mothers are watching your children die and parents are watching their kids and grandparents and parents die off this is the point where the human psychology flips and humans become most feral and then after the major die-off portion comes the mentality sets in of now it’s about real survival and real cooperation in order to make it. And I will point the finger directly at Hurricane Katrina and how things evolve down in New Orleans as the disaster moved on for how feral people turned, but you went straight to trying to discount obserable facts that i base my comments on. What is always the first thing that law enforcement Personnel have to focus on after an emergency event usually it’s the petty thievery the Petit murders and all the Looting that happens and that’s just at the very beginning of things being desperate never mind when they’re actually freaking starving and all the sickness from bad water is set in and all that emotional baggage is now influencing how people act. You can fall back onto your religious beliefs if you wish to but your religious beliefs are not going to have any impact at all for human psychology and how they react to the emergency as people sit there and watch family members suffer and die in the most miserable ways they are not going to care about morals.
I get it you are hooked on Hopium and want to see the best in humanity…. BUT THAT IS NOT FACING REALITY EVEN CONCERN SMALL SCOPE DISASTER, NEVER MIND A COUNTRY WIDE BANK SHUT DOWN HALTED ECONOMY OR EMP EVENT THAT CRASHES EVERYONE TO HALT. 72 HOURS…. AND THEN ITS ALL DOWN HILL… never mind the scalpers and price gougers, the deliberate price fixers, the deliberate rationers… Whem scarcity hits as things run out and patience ends and sickness starts setting in. Morals will get you DEAD IF YOU DONT MODIFY YOUR BEHAVIOR ACCORDING TO EVERYONE ELSES TEMPERMENT. LAW ENFORCEMENT CANNOT PROTECT YOUAND LIKELY WILL FAIL UTTERLY IF NO RESOLUTION OR FIX BECOMES APPARENT TO SOLVE SUPPLY ISSUES. LISTEN TO WHAT IAM TELLING YOU. this is how shit brokedown after Katrina proven documented fact. Even police changed how they did things because the hostility factors ramped up too fast as help was not to be found fast enough. They will run, they will hide, they will go feral faster because THEY CAN UNDER COLOR OF AUTHORITY.
I’ve hesitated to comment on this one. After reading everyone else’s comments and thinking hard and heavy, I have to agree with Neal. In fact, the scenario he outlines is what I’ve always suspected SHTF will be like. While I do have morals myself, I’m ready to shed them when the time comes. Neal is right. Acting like “mr. goody two-shoes” will just get you killed. I’ve always suspected SHTF will be a TOTAL societal breakdown, WROL, close to if not an all-out Mad Max type of situation. I live, breathe, eat, think, and sleep SURVIVAL. The new circumstances will FORCE people to change their mindset. Their lives will literally depend on it. My apologies to everyone else here. While you made some interesting comments, I have to agree with Neal.
Me too.
The Deplorable Renegade, apology for what ? Your opinion ?
90% of the comments here are based on fantasies, not any reality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZW8TlrYhBxk
Mr.Deplorable Renegrade You have the right idea. People that have to be prodded to change their mindset will be fodder for predators. Most people don’t realize but all this same behavior goes on RIGHT NOW in our own society. It stays just below the surface, bubbles over the top sometimes, but by and large UNNOTICED by most of our society. It will be an extreme shock for them to see it up close and personal. It is a grave (pun intended) mistake to underestimate what human beings are capable of. If you cannot protect yourself effectively that in itself will be insurmountable. Better safe than sorry….
“They shall cast their silver in the streets, and their gold shall be removed: their silver and their gold shall not be able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the LORD: they shall not satisfy their souls, neither fill their bowels: because it is the stumblingblock of their iniquity.”
— Eze 7:19
“Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten. Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth.”
— from James 5
How are people supposed to be buying all the training courses and prepping stuff, in an economy, where there is no dignity of labor and does not cover basic living expenses, by the sweat of the brow.
“their silver and their gold shall not be able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the LORD:”
That’s not what Jimmy Swaggard said lol.
And, all of the faithful did nothing.
Can we have your gear?
If in response to me, it comes from humble sources.
(Speaking of the ruins of civilization…)
What do shoplifters, drug addicts, and storage locker shows consider to be valuable / fungible.
How about the gas station mini mart, where lots of people pass through.
I think that most people, here, are probably very utilitarian and concerned with survival needs.
You would be clever and studious, to make this int a math problem.
But, the market is concerned with emotional needs, like brand names and little, moral vices. It’s as much psychology as math, imo.
Beaumont I saw this on YouTube recently “Why ramen is so valuable in prison”. It’s literally Gold!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLt9fRYT92M
Maybe, there’s a way to hoard Ramen. I’ve heard of namebrand laundry detergent being used as an alternative currency, soda pop and cigarettes. If you’re careful, and on the low end of the totem pole, clean bluejeans have good resale value.
I think the main thing to surviving in a barter economy, in a WROL situation, is to have “people” who will “avenge death”. If they kill me they will have to answer to my people.
If they know that they will be killed if they decide to rob and kill me, wont that make them think twice?
Only if have a bigger army.
Does anyone know how to store coffee,to keep its freshness the longrst?
Allegedly you buy unroasted beans and vaccuum pack them. Then roast as needed. Freezing is not the best way. Personally I think Costa Rican and Sumatra (Indonesia) taste the best. Many churches sell free trade coffee whole beans from Honduras to help orphanages. Yankee Prepper is an old school guy who will sell unroasted beans.
You can roast beans the old school way or for convenienace use a hot air popcorn popper.
In a SHTF situation, cold brewing gets you the strongest coffee without having to heat it plus it is low acid so it’s easier on your stomach. People who bought the expensive freeze dryers could try doing that as well. I have never seen an article on that.
Vacuum packed. Buy it that way – not DIY. Will last for years.
southside, I just looked into storing coffee and I came to two conclusions. I think it really depends why you are storing it.
1. If it’s for investment/barter than I would really look into storing “Green/Unroasted Coffee”. Roasting your own green coffee will provide you with the absolute “best” product for sale or trade.
Green coffee is like storing Hard Wheat. Just store it in Mylar Bags with oxygen absorbers and it will be great for 30 plus years.
2. For Personal Use” I would just store Freeze Dried Coffee because it will be just as good in 30 years as it is the day you bought it. I just bought a lot (it’s on sale at Costco) at stored it in Half-Gallon Mason Jars with oxygen absorbers and moisture descants. These are what I used, at Amazon.
500cc Oxygen Absorbers for Dehydrated Food and Emergency Long Term Food Storage – 100 with PackFreshUSA LTFS Guide
Dry & Dry 2 Gram Pack of 100 Premium Silica Gel Packets Desiccant Dehumidifiers – Rechargeable Paper(Food Safe FDA Compliant)
Justice, yeh make sure everything is FDA compliant ? HA HA HA
DowntoEarthThinking.com, Yeh but seriously it’s important to note that some types of desiccants are not safe to use with food storage. I don’t know if they are hazardous but people should make sure they get the food kind.
I can see it now, I would be like Burgess Meredith in the Twilight Zone episode where the world ends and he finally has all the time in the world to read and he breaks his thick prescription glasses. The SHTF and I sit down to enjoy a precious cup of Coffee and its a toxic brew because I used the wrong king of desiccant. DOH!
When you make good coffee either in a French press or Turkish style, it forms a froth the Italians and French call “crema”. That is the oil and it is what makes it taste fresh and delicious. That oil begins to go bad as soon as it’s roasted and then it oxidizes as well. That’s why you don’t roast it or grind it until it’s needed and vaccuum pack it.
Marantha, you are right that the oil in coffee begins to go bad as soon as it’s roasted and this process really accelerates when it’s ground. Consequently, I really don’t recommend storing “Ground Coffee” in any way long term.
Storing Coffee for long-term use is a bit of a problem and as a result I put it off until recently. Really, there seems to be two options which I described above.
I hear that this makes the best coffee: AeroPress Coffee and Espresso Maker – Quickly Makes Delicious Coffee without Bitterness. There are plenty of YouTube videos on this product.
h ttps://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0047BIWSK/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_9?smid=A302OQK4GZWXCC&psc=1
I’ve been researching it for nearly six decades as I love a good cup of Joe. As far as I know, there is NO decent coffee substitute that has caffeine in it other that black tea. That is rather difficult to grow in large amounts in most of the USA.
Steer clear of the Yapun holly as it does have trace amounts of caffeine BUT induces vomiting.
You Texans may be in luck after the SHTF and get some coffee trade from Mexico or Honduras.
Jerba Mate – as good as coffee, or even better. Ask South Americans.
Yep, Yerba Mate a type of Holly like the variety I spoke of earlier BUT it is indigenous to South America. Therefore it is not something that will grow well in the USA.
Mexicans and Hondurans will OWN Texas, after SHTF. You have heard of the Atzlan Reconquista, have you not?
Well as only 0.3% of all Hispanics in the USA live in Kentucky, it’s not a major concern here.
Texans managed just fine in history. My money is on them if the SHTF though they will be sorely tested.
ROFLMAO!
Mexicans and Hondurans will be run off or exterminated… just like we did last time. Those losers are barely able to feed themselves. They ain’t gonna take over Texas. The California pussies maybe but not Texas.
That reconquista fantasy starts in New Mexico and goes West.
I buy instant organic coffee at Kroger’s. Add hot water. Easy. Caffeine jolt is good and comes in a jar. Not sure where to buy it in bulk. Believe me, when it’s cold, the weather is crappy, and a coffee person doesn’t have coffee, they’ll drink this and be happy. I’m lazy in my old age and don’t like all the mess from grinding fresh coffee beans. Instant is easy. There is also instant espresso in a small jar, from Italy. If you see this stuff on sale, buy a case. Not sure if I would trade for it or use it as a small gift or favor when someone helps me out.
Buy in bulk! Google is your friend (sometimes).
ht tps://instantcoffee.co/freeze-dried-coffee
SHTF? Toilet Paper?
One: squeeze bottle (they sell them with a curved nozzle for use after pregnancy).
Two: saw a great video on compact toilet paper tablets! You can get a container of 500 on Amazon. It is compressed and 8 or 9 will fit in one of those orange tubes for matches. You get it a little bit wet and the thing poofs out! Pretty amazing stuff.
Three: cut up sheets, micro fleece sheets, towels and make squares. Two buckets: one for clean squares, second for used squares. You can wash the used squares and re-use.
Four: Give each family person a hook and their own color washcloth with a loop. Reusable and washable.
Bleach is going to be needed, same for rubbing alcohol. Bottles of rubbing alcohol, or the little boxes of 50 or 100 in foil packets, are cheap.
Bleach is hard to store long term, so others have mentioned the powder form, cheap as pool shock.
You will want to use bleach on those butt wiping rags when you wash them!
I’ve notice some dry crystal bleach on the grocery store shelves but the pool shock type is likely cheaper.
Yep. That is the kind to keep on hand. Bleach is good stuff. It keeps people from getting sick, and, if people are sick, it can keep others from catching it.
Three cleaners I always have on hand: bleach, vinegar, and rubbing alcohol. Rubbing alcohol works great on fridges, seals, delicate items, and I take a spray bottle with me if I have to stay in the hospital. For what? I use it to spray down every surface in the room from the doorknobs to the phone to the toilet seat and toilet handle and sink and sink handle. Good stuff. Cheap. Does it stink? Yes. Evaporates quickly and better than getting sick!
Or just wipe yer ass with some dead trespassers face?
tz, on my last trip to Costco I got a 52 pack of Wash Cloths as a final solution to the toilet paper problem. When the TP finally runs out I am now “good to go?!?!”.
I think it’s unwise to deal with anyone in a post SHTF situation unless there is absolutely no other choice. Trading implies that you have things to trade which means things to steal. In any function in which you do come in contact with others cry that you have nothing and need everything. Humanity and civility is a luxury one can have once their belly is full.
I agree. No way in hell am I going to be roaming around looking to trade with strangers! That sounds like a way to end up robbed and dead.
Exactly. Good time to wear scruffy clothes and drop any bling that you once wore in public. That stuff will make you a target. Look homeless. Don’t make eye contact. Make it look like you are having as hard of a time as others when you go out.
I agree, the “woe is me” stories will be over the top. Either you have a woe-is-me story or you become a target for those that do. How many people have prepped? FFS how many people have $500 in savings for an emergency? Not many. People in the US have grown soft, fat, lazy, incompetent, spoiled with no skills and no desire to learn skills that are useful.
How many young women, or men for that matter, can prepare a home meal from scratch? With a cast iron pan or Dutch oven over an open fire / grill / rocket stove? My guess is 1 in 1000.
Kevin2, agree wholeheartedly. Bartering definitely carries some risk, an unacceptable risk IMHO. Best to stockpile everything you need before SHTF. Hence, no need for bartering later.
Be the extremely well armed “grey man”.
No offense to Selco…..but he was party to the break up of the Yugoslavian state. A nasty but LOCALIZED affair.
When TSHTF in America things are going to be much worse over a MUCH larger area. When the unrest in the Balkans 20 years ago was going on the rest of the western world was still in good shape. All the comforts and luxuries were still being produced….and smuggled into the various regions at war there. When OUR balkanization happens the world economy is going to tank. That means a LOT LESS production is going to happen so a lot more things will NOT BE AVAILABLE be it by purchase, barter or violence. It simply WON’T exist. Plan accordingly.
Dan
That is an insight that tends to get ignored. The forward dynamics have no previous historical similarities to use for comparison. I think of the fall of the Roman Empire in a time where the civilian population is utterly dependent upon a functioning industrialized civilization that largely disappears.
Look. It’s certainly true that an organized mob of even young naive people with leadership (see Mao and the Cultural Revoluntion) can kill millions. Antifa, BLM, and BAMN have illustrated that some fiend like Soros can just fund and transport them and they can cause temporary anarchy in global locations.
But that is predicated on leadership, resources, persuasion, transprtation, food, weapons, communication, etc. None of which will be possible under even something mild like country-wide weather phenomena, economic collapse, civil war, EMP, earthquakes, massive forrest fires, etc.
Most Americans are helpless purely because 80% plus live in urban centers and these are those infamous blue zones that voted for Hillary Clinton. Many of them are on the East and West Coast and typically near the water due to the history of river trade.
The rest live in isolated pockets, often cities of 20-30,000. Then you have places where folks live in even tinier places like the little villages of Kentucky where 300-500 people live very quiet lives. Then you have rural families of six or less living 3-5 miles directly from their neighbors.
Only 2% of over 330 million plus Americans actual citizens are preppers. That means 98 % often have 7-10 days of food and much of that is frozen which is unstable due to power outages. In this category, you are looking at short-term issues like hunger affecting low blod sugar thus accumulating weakness and even a week results in many having medical issues.
But clean drinking water is the main issue. The city water departments have 7-14 days of chlorination on hand. After a week with limited transportation over an increasing number of municipalities, first boiling would be needed (but most likely will NOT get communicated out of panic. But that implies they have power or firewood to boil water. By the second week, many would die of dehydration, and few would organize to safely gather water and drink contaminated water.
Scientists did a study of water sources in America and most are so contaminated with runoff that drinking these without purification would cause issues nearly immediately.
Think calmly on this manner. By the seventh day, some would start to flee, but would cause a massive drain on gasoline and diesel. But most likely that had already been commandeered by local politicians than the military.
This would cause cascading transportion issues, snarling up available resources as coastal urbanites fled from one densely populated zone right to the next urban center, only to be blocked in traffic jams, highwayman jacking cars, accidents, stalled vehicles due to failing belts, overheatings, throwing rods, flat tires, etc.
That means those people you fear have many issues they have to deal with, and each hinderance takes the wind out of their sails. Plus they have no shelter, no water, firewood would be scarce due to everyone looking for it, no food, etc. Lots of medical issues would stop families and individuals, plus these would get preyed upon. Many could die of exposure in that December-February window I frequently talk about.
If you are these 2% who are preppers, and far enough from these coastal or river areas near urban centers, this horde you fear stands little chance of getting to your rural area. But if criminals or excons live nearby, and they know what you have, that is who is your real potential threat for a probe to test your resolve and capabilities.
Bravo! Very good thinking in terms of cause and effect but more so in identifying that how fast and what critical infrastructure fails lead to the fastest breakdown of civility due to the lack of EXPECTED and RELIED UPON resources to them. Now you can pair that analysis as to why I made my comments about morality being a serious handicap to appropriate reactions to that breakdown of civility. That is the kind of strategic thinking people NEED to have…from there they can develop tactical thinking because they moderately understand the mechanics of the larger picture. Of course, out of whack human reactions (actual human psychology driven reactions to emergencies) are the true wildcard. People we associate with LIKE WILL react in ways that we do not assume they will when they are unprepared to react to society conditions they could not forsee coming. There is a big difference between what WE cognitively assume their reactions SHOULD be, and what they actually are. Case in point, You have “polite” society now where we have frequent examples of ROAD RAGE over the most ridiculous reasons…mostly because people act so entitled…..And this is not without at outside ABNORMAL circumstances and pressures mucking up their thinking…Road Rage…Now throw in for these people, hunger, personal illness, personal huger or thirst or being chilled for lack of heating or cooling, family member suffering from any of the same compounded by maybe water borne illness. The person/people you thought you knew before in polite society, becomes a whole new animal under these new conditions….and predictability…well don’t forget that as we already HAVE ROAD RAGE AND DRUG ADDICTS AND KNOCK GAME AND ANTIFA running around in POLITE Society…What do you think the magnification WILL be in sudden emergency conditions that grossly END their standard of living they already have, never mind what the cannot return to.
Yeah…a very very very different animal, and again I say, do you want your morality weaponized against you such that you hesitate to appropriately react to the NEW situation…
People would be wise to have plans to feed themselves, obtain potable water, know how to stay warm and DRY and have the ability and WILLPOWER to protect themselves, their property and their family. Otherwise all that other stuff you have piled up to do all that wonderful banter and barter will belong to someone else if they desire, and believe me there will be some who will DESIRE.
People ALREADY “desire” and take what they want in “polite society”…change the playing field to SHTF /WITHOUT RULE OF LAW or fear of Law Enforcement…and the whole game changes drastically. That is the change in morality and psychology people do not consider or understand.
I’m amused that preppers discuss stocking up on toilet paper. Gayette’s medicated papers were not regularly sold until the 1900s and water closets. I just watched a Western with Robert Duvall and he sent a rider into town to get some “Arbuckles” which was a standard source of coffee beans and some medicated papers and both were some luxuries to make life a little easier.
Corncobs were common when they didn’t have any mullein growing with the latter far superior.
What you do need to know is you can heat limestone and then crumble it to make slaked lime. That is needed as a soil ammenity and to sweeten the outhouse pit to improve breakdown. You also need lime to make paint.
Ranch hands running a cattle or horse drive to market would have a “Cookie” whose job duties included running the chuckwagon. When you bought your Arbuckles’ coffee it was a luxury as it was imported but essential as guys were on watch and making rounds in the dark. Sleepin’ in snatches, and in the rain, and never quite warm in desert country, back hurtin’ from sleeping on the ground (especially your hips and lower back) and every little luxury is a big deal.
Anyways it came with a peppermint stick so the cookie coud eat it or or would get guys to help grind it if they “wanted the stick”.
When people think about any radioactive release of isotope species, they first think of iodine. The reason is it is rapidly taken up by your thyroid, and the function of the thyroid is management of metabolic rate. So the patient can’t control temperature regulation or caloric use and proper nutrition with many side effects.
But that iodine is NOT the only variety of radioativity as there are over ten to twenty others released like Cesium and Strontium with the former collecting in the lungs and the later in your bones due to attachment to calcium. The point being not to be lulled into only thinking about the immediate and short-term effects.
Low iodine in the diet can cause cretinism in babies as it affects neural development. Iodine can be extracted from walnut husks which are the green outer coating that blackens. That also is how settlers made black dye for their cloth.
stuff……that you will need when there’s no potable water or electricity……or civility. THAT s what you will need to have when the shtf. as long as i got all this sh t…..and LOTS of it, i’ll be ok…food with plenty of moisture content(canned fruit, soups,vegies, meats,), stuff to keep you warm, dry, and bulletproof. firemaking equipment, boy scout manual, spices to make sh t taste better, sh t to keep you guns shooting, peanut butter is great shtf food…packed full of calories, and no heating required. milk will be PRICELESS…maybe even MORE expensive, dried, evaporated, and condensed.
honey
syrup
vinegar
shortening/corn oil
soy sauce…teriyake
beef/chicken bullion
baking soda, baking powder, yeast
salt.pepper, garlic salt, chilli powder, italian seasoning, cinnamon, ketchup, mustard mayo.
halagon/pry bar
plates/ eating utensils…(mess kit)
compass
knives, hammock, flashlights and batteries
dutch oven, firewood, shovel, axe, gas,
painkillers/antibiotics
maps
clorox
tool bag
sandpaper
file
hammer
vicegrips
digging bar
tow strap and chain
IFAK
this is a post I made to put on selco’s site( shtfschool.com )…it’s the basic “short list”… I thought it was worth passing on. randy
i TOO have more than one bag…the one in my car(or i move it to whatever vehicle i’m in) has everything but the kitchen sink in it. it is a deployer bag military issue with wheels on one end that i could actually drag around for a SHORT distance. it holds a bunch of stuff and VERY heavy-duty. i figure when the time comes to abandon it, AND my vehicle i can move the things i need for whatever situation i find myself in at the time to my assault bag, also military issue…. there are myriad situations that would require different items in your bag. also, my VEHICLE is my BIG bugout bag. many things in there that could be very handy to have, but you wouldn’t want to carry them very far. jumper cables, tow strap and small piece of chain to allow you to attach to ANY vehicle(you are stuck or someone you want to help is stuck), E-tool(folding shovel), 2 cases of water. sleeping bag, hatchet, tarps to make tent, BIG bag full of cold-weather clothes for the whole family(they will probly be with me!), hiking boots for ALL six family members, BIG first-aid kit(antibiotics too), walking stick(6 foot,mainly for protection), OTHER personal protection devices, small bag of tools, binoculars, a pair of 4 foot long 4×6’s for crossing obstacles when driving off-road(one 8 inch deep ditch can really slow you down or even STOP your journey), heavy-duty wirecutters, bowsaw to cut trees blocking road….,long pants(i normally wear shorts here in the mojave desert), money(it might still work for a while), a deck of playing cards might come in handy, benadryl for allergic reactions., antibiotics…these last few things are going to be important if you get stuck a couple hundred miles from home….in short, bugging out will be different for different situations. the spectrum goes from still being in your vehicle and traveling HUNDREDS of miles to get to safe distance from nuke or volcano to running for your life through the woods 200 yards from your house after it is over-run by looters. i prefer to have all the bases covered and just abandon what i don’t need/can’t carry when the situation arises. i won’t apologise for the long post, because every time i read one of selco’s lessons when i get to the end, i wish there was more GREAT info.
3 one ounce gold coins are ALWAYS in my vehicle when i’m more than 100 miles from home.
and a very hearty THANK YOU to all who commented on this article….you guys are what makes this site still worth reading!
It’s a good list but some of these things can be made like vinegar and soy sauce. Y’all can experiment with these.
Baking powder is a problem as it contains baking soda, cream of tartar, and corn starch. The difficult one is the cream of tartar.
http://www.madehow.com/Volume-6/Baking-Powder.html
You can make ash cakes for flatbread but that is about the limit of the rise.
Your most likely leaven is old fashioned Austrian style bread made from slightly fermenting raisins as yeast collects on them, then adding them and the water to the batch. It’s sort of a forgotten recipe.
Then there is Sourdough which everyone gets tired of so you switch to Amish Friendship bread.
Salt Rising bread is made with a variety of safe Clostridium but requires scalded milk.
Any flatbread will vastly reduce cooking time thus fuel requirements and ease of technique so Lebanese Mountain bread or Pita or just plain old griddle cakes is better than loaves.
great post, maranatha! you always got a lot of great info, and i appreciate it.
Thanks. Anyone who is a home vintner can sorta make cream of tartar. It’s made from the “dregs” and then dried and you have tartaric acid.
Back in the seventies, hippies would get together and form a food cooperative. You volunteered some labor each month and then got vastly reduced prices on bulk items. Some folks bought membership in companies like Frontier Co-op and that meant deep discounts that were the same as those used by health food stores. Bulk spice prices were often one tenth the price of the grocery store so a very frugal way to buy these items.
That was valid as late as 2000. I reckon you still can do it with some groups. I bought a lot essential oils back then and when only using a few drops, they seem to last for a huge length of time. You could seldom distill oils cheaper except for acorn oil.
http://homesteadlaboratory.blogspot.com/2016/03/wood-ash-leavening-biscuit-baking-time.html?m=1
Here’s a report from several preppers sorta doing what I suggested but aproximating baking soda not baking powder (ie no corn starch and cream of tartar). It appears that milk and butter with the vinegar and ash replicates a similar process used by the colonials in the 1700s.
It looks very possible to make decent biscuits without baking soda.
This is all such bullshit! Venezuela is a good model of what will likely be the scenario in the USA if the government goes down. The remaining government will declare martial law and all your prep stuff will be confiscated for “the greater good.” So you have ONLY ONE choice. To be killed outright by the government agents that come to confiscate your stuff, or to be killed by renegades who will do the same. “Ill fight to the death,” you say. Yep! You will die! All your prep for naught!
Forget the prep. VOTE WISELY! Keep the system intact! That is your best bet for a long happy life!
Remember: Stupid people voting unwisely are the root cause of the problems we now face!
We lucked out with Trump! Will we again in two years? You want to vote in people that want to make the USA like Venezuela? Think carefully before you do something that will cause the SHTF! Venezuela went from a booming USA-like economy to a socialist hell all due to the voting of the people! Think carefully next election! Keep America great!