While many Americans reject the idea of a multi-story mosque and Islamic center being built a few blocks from Ground Zero, many politicians, including the President, have voiced support for the building.
Below, you will find two views on the mosque debate, but they are not necessarily from opposing political ideologies.
The first is from Charlie McGrath, of Wide Awake News, in a video aptly titled “offended,” as it may offend the ideas you may have about the mosque and the very debate over it. It is important to note that Charlie has been an outspoken critic of the gross mismanagement of our economy by politicians and the lobbying efforts of corporate elites who seek to turn America into a fascist, corporate-controlled socialist state. He has spent countless hours informing the American public about the scams, shams and machinations on Wall Street and in Washington D.C., and if we had to guess, we’d say he was neither liberal or conservative, but a free-thinking constitutionalist. Thus, we value his opinion and are always open to entertaining his ideas.
Excerpts from Charlie McGrath:
“My question is, who cares? Who cares if they’re building this center there? I don’t care if the Muslims build at Ground Zero. I don’t care one iota. Because you know what, we’ve been told for ten years now that it wasn’t the Muslims. It was the terror-lovin’ terrorists that did this to us.
You know – the real terror-lovin’ terrorists, in my opinion, are close to Ground Zero, on Wall Street. They’re the ones that offend me.”
…
“What’s offensive to me is this crony corporatocracy that we live in. That offends me. Build your mosque. Build your temple. It’s a game, it’s a trap. Don’t fall for it.”
Charlie McGrath Video:
Our second view comes from Pat Condell of Godless Comedy. While we are not familiar with Mr. Condell’s regular work, he has an interesting view of the mosque controversy. According to Condell’s own web site, he is not a religious person, by any means, and suggests that each individual has to determine their own faith and spirituality. He is neither a Muslim or Christian, and according to his FAQ, often argues against and attacks both religions.
Pat Condell’s view of the Ground Zero mosque:
“Apparently it’s not enough that nearly 3000 innocent people had to lose their lives in a hideous act of religious mass murder, but now their memory has to be insulted as well. And, the religion that murdered them allowed to build a towering, triumphalist mosque on the ground where they died. Is America losing its mind?”
…
“Any religion that endorses violence is incapable of delivering spiritual enlightenment. How obvious does that have to be? And it has no right even to call itself a religion. Without the shield of religion to hide behind, Islam would be banned in the civilized world as a political ideology of hate and we have no obligation to make allowances for it any more than we do for Nazism.”
Pat Condell Video:
Hat tip Bill for the Pat Condell video. Hat tip Rense.com for the McGrath video.
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Americans have to be smarter than to allow themselves to be used as tools by others pushing leavers for their own gain. The mosque issue two blocks from ground zero is very simple. Americans believe in freedom of religion. Our nation was founded on that principle by many people fleeing religious persecution in Europe. Either you support the First Amendment or you don’t. As long as peaceful religious messages are taught at the center then their right to build the mosque on private property is protected by the Bill of Rights to The Constitution. Matter closed.
Who really blew up the twin towers? Who orchestrated it? Who created Al-Queda? What Israel got to do with it?
Anyone who still beleives after all the evidence to the contrary that Islamic extremists carried out this attack on the towers is a fool. The Gov’t Inc. has lied about everthing of any importance. To base your religous fashism on lies and misinformation is pathetic.
The information that I have seen suggests that 911 was planned by Al Queda and executed by Mossad.
Mossad knew the plan and kept it to themselves. Mossad shadowed the terrorists across the country and intercepted all of their communications. Larry Silverstein purchased the Towers in the summer and actually insured them for a billion dollars more than the purchase price with special clauses that, low and behold, occurred on 911. The towers were hit by the planes but destroyed by thermalite; a highly sophisticated, high tech, nano particle high explosive that is produced only by a select few governments, including Israel.
Sad to say, but I believe our “friends” let US take the hit to enrage public opinion against Islam. Â The US government knows the truth but has worked very hard to suppress it with the help of the Lame Steam Media.
““Apparently it’s not enough that nearly 3000 innocent people had to lose their lives in a hideous act of religious mass murder, but now their memory has to be insulted as well.”
“Apparently” 9 years of in-your-face lying to us isn’t enough insult for this clown. I’m still waiting on an explanation of how 2 airplanes caused the collapse of 3 completely separate buildings.
Comments…..They should be allowed to build a mosque on Ground Zero as long as…the Japanese can build a shrine at Pearl Harbor, the Vietnamese can build a temple on the Vietnam wall, the Germans and Japanese can build centers on every location that honors the WWII dead, and so on. Islam is NOT a religion – it is a political party with it’s own set of laws (the only one allowed, of course). Read the Qua’ran – quite enlightening. Hearing the politicians speak proves they have NOT read it.Â
    Not sure what happened on 9/11 – lots of unanswered questions. Regardless, a victory mosque is ALWAYS put up on conquered soil… the location is not a surprise…
Comments….. What is the purpose of building this mosque on property where part of the jet landed? This isn’t about freedom of religion, this about what their faith teaches them–to kill and hate. Furthermore, they call Americans infidels. Building that mosque is “an in your face and a slap in the face” to Americans. There’s hundreds of mosques already in New York, and building one right down in the business part of town is furthering their agenda.  It’s causing more hatred towards the Muslims here in America. It will further divide this nation–those giving the go ahead have their head up their butts.
They can build it elsewhere.Â
Follow the money……
Comments…..
Our constitution of the United States is about “separation” of church and state. Separation of the government and religion. A democracy.  A political system in which the power lies in a body of citizens who can elect people to represent them. The Islamic – Muslim faith is just the opposite. A theocracy. It’s a religion and government. Theocracy is a form of government in which a god or deity is recognized as the state’s supreme civil ruler, or in a higher sense, a form of government in which a state is governed by immediate divine guidance or by officials who are regarded as divinely guided. …(Wikepedia)
What keeps getting brought up is this is about freedom of religion. No – this is a in our face monstrosity and is about a cultural center/theatre which includes a place for members to pray and worship. Guess what. Our community college has a room set up for Muslims to pray and reflect several times a day too and it is not a Mosque.
This is a foreign government planting their flag on US soil and sticking it to us.  This is politics. For Muslims it is one and the same. They govern from their faith. That is why we have such problems around the world. Americans want to apply our logic, values and agendas (like establishing little D democracies) to the rest of the world even when they tell us they have a different agenda. We don’t listen.
As a kid, had my first “real” fight. I was brought up in private school where you don’t hit below the belt, if you knock them down, you let them up, no kicking, something like King’s rules. Well, I did that, when this other girl from public school got me down, she started kicking the shit out of me and didn’t let up until she was ready to. Lesson learned – find out what the rules are – cause what that experience taught me was for some – THERE ARE NO RULES!
That’s what I believe about this situation. Americans have these surreal high standards of fair play and the Muslims are not obligated and have demonstrated they do not play the same way. Women and children are acceptable collateral damage. What don’t you get? Their religion says they can lie to you and they are required to come after you. Their politics is how they are going to do it. Why don’t you believe them?  Open your eyes and see what is happening in other countries when it comes to Muslims.
No Muslim Cultural Center at Ground Zero. Site should be a historical landmark to 9/11.Â
This is an emotional distraction. 9/11 and all the official/MSM nonsense surrounding it is just one, huge brain-processing absurdity…Zuck Fionism 🙂
Who thinks it will be built/finished? Then it will really start.
@ Tom – I’m thinking it will turn into a target of some sort. This might be a good starting point. It won’t turn out good. I feel like it’s just another slap in the face from obama……
Lady Hawk – I learned how to fight the same way. I thought there were suppose to be rules but after getting the crap beat out of me I realized that wasn’t true. As in life too.
this mosque issue is simply another corny pre-planned distraction to divert the publics attention from the major issues facing america like global amalekite bankers stealing our wealth out the back door while leaving us with massive debts and an impending currency crisis.
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I must agree with Greg. America is about freedom and with freedom, you can’t always have everything your way. Freedom means you do as you wish as long as you do not infringe upon another persons freedom. Freedom does not mean we all have to agree on any one thing. Will there be people who abuse their freedom and infringe upon another persons freedom? Yes, and we have laws which hopefully give us boundaries to live within. Why waste so much energy and time on such a trivial item when our own elected representatives( US citizens) are robbing us blind? Is it because it is easier to be angry at some faceless group than to be honest with ourselves and admit that we have been complacent, as well as complicit, in our own demise? We, as a group(americans), have chosen to look the other way, and not have the courage to say NO! to our elected representatives. How long has Social Security been an issue? How long has deficit spending been an issue with all forms of government in America? How long has cronyism been an issue in all forms of goverment in America? Build a mosque? We have far more important issues to deal with. The first one is being honest with ourselves!Â
Comments….. @ SD Mule – agree on a few of your points – however, there have been those of us saying NO – and have tried to make a difference and say to citizens you need to pay attention. Personally, I am fatigued at the name calling and being marginalized when we point out the Emperors and their lackeys have no clothes whether they are a D or R.Â
I’m so over supporting a party – it’s about the country and those willing to support it’s best interests. Since those in office can’t stop feeding at the corporate trough and listening to those they represent – then we need to boot them out –
How is that done? – a bite at a time. Pick the battles.  Mosque at ground zero. Excessive recreating by our so called leaders including extravagant golf excursions and vacations out of country while our troops are sacrificing and in harms way - Shining a light on how they are pulling off this economic ponzi including calling them out on their deceptions and untruths and the best – voting the bums out. Â
Can you imagine the drama for workers that expire to build this?
Comments….. So what about the separation of church and State? Gov.Paterson has offered to give them State property to building their mosque on. How many blue color workers do you think they can get to build that building that will house people who want to kill us? Seems to me that anyone who shows up to build it will be a target as well.
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/08/17/paterson-king-hope-for-mosque-compromise/
Except for the elite areas where the well-off live and work, New York is getting more like Calcutta or any other 3rd world shit hole. I could care less if they built a mosque there with a minaret playing the call to the faithful five times a day and has a special ‘stoning the unrepentant’ area right over ground zero.
Funny that somehow the city and people of NYC provided for a new baseball stadium and a new football stadium, but didn’t give a shit enough to rebuild the World Trade Center like Bush and all the stiffs said they would right away back then. If nobody else is going to do anything then why not have a mosque near there? And a 911 theme park with water slides. Think of the local vender’s selling goat meat sandwiches and Death to America t-shirts. It’ll be good for business and It’ll be Jews suppling the goat meat and t-shirts to the vender’s. A win-win.
What different does it make now? Things are only going to get worse and worse in this country whether you like it or not.
Israel did 9/11, ALL THE PROOF YOU NEED
“[The Israeli Mossad is] ruthless and cunning, with the capability to target U.S. forces and make it look like a Palestinian-Arab act.†-Report issued by the U.S. Army School of Advanced Military Studies (SAMS); September 2001
http://ehpg.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/israel_did_911.pdf
Lady Hawk,
I am not sure you and I are thinking about the same thing. How is protesting the building of a mosque going to change the purchasing power of your money, provide demand for products that will require hiring of the unemployed, reduce the cronyism in government, reduce the wasteful deficit spending? How about no longer shopping at Wal-mart (processed, crappy food and Chinese made products), purchase silver,gold,platinum, and/or palladium with your US dollars, making the choice to vote for term limits by never voting for the same candidate twice (regardless of their party) at all levels of government, purchasing less foreign made junk that ends up in your closet or garage and pay a little more for American made quality produtcs. Buy quality and buy less. That is how we have been complicit in our own demise. It is not the Muslims, the Sunnis, the Shiites, the Africans, the Asians, or the Martians who have made us do this. It was our choice as a Nation to go this route. We chose the cheap, poorly made foreign junk. We chose to keep these knuckleheads in office all these years. They don’t put themselves into office but they sure did vote against term limits. I wonder why???
Comments…..
There are those saying this is a constitutional issue on freedom of religion. If it’s about religion, they say the mosque must be built.  I believe Muslims naming it a mosque is a Trojan Horse. It is a proposed 13 to 15 floor multi-use building which includes an area where members can pray and reflect. No different then the Young Men’s Christian Association (YMCA). Yet, the facilities the
YMCA built and operate are not designated as churches.
Calling it a mosque, instead of a community or cultural center is a brilliant tactic. It invokes the Constitution and cloaks it in rights. Like shouting heretic in days of old – it is an end run – a conversation stopper. It goes hand in hand with the politically correct and new speak of not being able to say mosque’s are breeding grounds for Islamic extremist or terrorist. (This will no doubt get me on someone’s watch list.)
SD Mule, good points and several of them it can be said I’ve championed through my affiliations, buying practices and local community activism.  We are at war with Islamic extremist and protesting a specific community center (mosque) at “Ground Zero” ” is my way of letting those willing to do me and mine harm, that some Americans are paying attention and are aware that history, symbolism, agendas and strategies matter. It ain’t much, but for now, it will have to do.
jeje good for you lady hawk so to you the muslim people have no rights because the 9/11…and you want america in war with almost 2 billion of muslim people of this planet because the work of bin laden and a bunch of crazy people??, cant you see that you racist comments will just make the muslims hate more america???   did you even bother yourself to research a little bit about the 9-11??? the 9-11 was an inside job not an act of Islamic Islamic extremist  terrorist like you said, and besides the american goverment crimes around the world are completely blind to you?? who kill 1 million of citizens in irak??? people like you are the true reason why the 90% people of this planet hates america…..
I am glad to see at least a few Americans are waking up to the fact that islam should not be designated a religion, with the protection that religions get, here in America.
islam is a political system, and  should be labeled a death cult. (death to infidels, homosexuals, adulterers, jews, Christians, and even jihad refusing muslims)  Slavery is islamic , and practiced by all islamic countries.
All most 2 billion people are trapped in islam, to the worst of lives, especially if you happen to be a woman or child.
islam’s practices are not compatible with American culture.  islam teaches jihad as a primary teaching….kill, till nothing but islam exist.
islam has not been hi-jacked  by extremist. The “extremist” are the true believers of the koran  and the hadiths. Terrorism is the by-product of  islam.  Always has been, and always will be.
I would like to know how much, and from who,  the NY city council members got, in exchange, for  voting to take a prime piece of Manhattan Real Estate, with some of the highest  RE taxes, in the state and city, off the tax rolls, forever,  so this islamic fort could be  built?  That’s the question, that we should be asking.
At ground zero we are replacing a church with a mosque. St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church was destroyed on 9/11. The authorities did not allow it to be rebuilt. What makes me feel bad is not the building of a mosque, but the fact that it had less claim to the place than the church, and yet, it might be approved, while the church was not approved without much of a discussion. I am not at all angry at the Muslims who want to built this mosque. The decision not to rebuilt the church was made without their influence.
I will post it again, friends. Do the research:  911 was planned by Al Queda and executed by Mossad. Yes Al Queda hijacked the planes, but Mossad demolished the buildings with Thermalite, a hi-tech high explosive. The facts are available and have been exposed for those who want the truth; and hid from the sheeple by OUR Government who knows the truth, but who will not acknowledge it.
“Keep you friends close and your enemies closer” has always been good advice.
The builders of the mosque stated that they wished to build at that location to give back to the community. I guess their ways are different than most religious leaders I know. Most would have spoken to the community ahead of the purchase. They would have opened a dialogue and continued that talking and listening to all local parties for a year or so to determine that it would indeed be a good thing for the entire community. If they could not get that general community support, they would have moved to another location. My understanding of this situation is that they decided to build, met oposition and then stated they are doing it for the community but at no time have they tried to reach out, build bridges or heal the divide.Â
I have heard they plan to have resources in the building that will be open to the local residents of this community but why, if they have not tried to reach out in any way so far? Are the resources a way to bring in the youth to convert them?Â
I do believe that we must follow the Constitution that allows them to build where they wish. But how did they get approval and the church that was already located at Ground Zero prior to the attach has not been granted approval to REBUILD?Â
We can’t see into their hearts but we can watch their actions, because that will tell us who they really are. We can trust their actions to tell the truth. And we can and should pray for them, friend or foe, we can do that.
Comments…..
@ j p morgan - I subscribe to Alex Jones version of 9-11. He has done excellent investigative research and reporting on the circumstances surrounding it.
Muslims have the same rights as any citizen of this country. But would you not agree, that their Islamic faith and religion are intertwined in a culture of laws, social and individual duties that can be at odds with what this country holds as valued and sacred? We welcome and tolerate diversity in people and religions, which includes those of the Islamic faith as they have built thousands of mosques across the country. On the other hand, is it a tenet of the Islamic faith for religious tolerance and do they practice it?
We are a nation of laws voted on by the people which socially codifies our behavior.  How does religious Shari laws and judgments that allow for arranged marriage of children, honor killings and stoning fit into our justice system?  The requirement of women to behave in a certain manner and be covered from head to toe?  Their agenda is for the Western world to accept their dogma and practices. This is not just about America, free countries around the world are in conflict with melding the Islamic faith into democratic societies.
Within the Islamic faith you have extremists – including home grown born in America Muslim terrorist. I’m sure from your posting, you have performed your research as you had asked if I had done, but if need be I can name them.  What do they have in common? Mosque leaders and teachings. I see nothing racist about my comments in saying these people have an agenda to do us harm. They have demonstrated their willingness through acts of terror. It behooves us to be vigilant to their motives and activities.
Lastly, I personally don’t give a rat’s a$$ if Muslims like me personally or as an American.  They say Islam is a religion of peace, then show it. I’m seeing only violence. Then when there is, where are the outcries from the moderate Muslims when a terrorist act is attempted or conducted by one of their disciples?? Being a melting pot with religious tolerance, I’m not one to bow down to another’s religion or stand down while our constitutional way of life is high jacked by unbelievers of a democratic life style. Wasn’t there something in the Islamic history about “convert or die by the sword”. How about, “choose to come or are here in America – assimilate”.
The Zionist Jesus is coming back to Jerusalem the land of the Jews not the land of the pediphile worshipping muslims. Jesus born a Jew and died a Zionist Jew. Don’t you anit-zionists forget that when you land in HELL.
Lady hawk that  reasons you give againts the islam are as true as the reasons the whole muslim community have to hate america and try to burn it down with terrorist attacks or etc, let me tell you about the millions of people the cia kill around the world in the past 40 years or the war on vietnam and 3 millions of deaths in the hands of americans soldiers, the muslim people never kill 1 million of americans in usa as the americans did in IRAK so if to you the islam religion is a satanist way to make wicked things what do you have to say about the genocide of your fucking country in irak???
Lady Hawk has you way over classed JP Morgan in “all” aspects.
Since when did America become a nation who:
…is tolerant of those who are intolerant of it?
…grants freedom of expression to those who want to express how much they hate freedom?
…grants freedom of religion to those who want to destroy all other religions?
This is yet another warning sign of where this country is heading, my friends. Do not let it go unnoticed.
Comments…..I totally agree with most of you…Don’t want the mosque there and frankly don’t want them at all in America.  It’s too easy to build it with good purposes in mind and then let evil come in and try to destroy us. American people are too tolerant and the politicians too eager to appease people for their votes. They are taking advantage of Americans good nature and abidance of the rules. I don’t trust any of them.
Comments…..
J P Morgan – How do you propose we go forward? The USA is only 234 years old and the Islamic faith is said to be over 1500 years.  Islamic history is replete with wars fought and the killings of each other, their neighbors, other people who don’t believe as they do, other tribes and nations over resources, land, trade routes, power, women – you name it.  I don’t believe the Islamic faith is aligned with Satan, nor are the people. I do believe some of their practices are barbaric and primitive with punitive methods to extract retribution or settle grievances.  Parts of Shari law have no place in the 21st century. Muslims could use a reformation.
Clinging to their current dogma only maintains the status quo which harbors a litany of grievances and grudges they hurl at each over events that happened eons ago. And this is long before we showed up on the scene. Has our government meddled in their affairs resulting in deaths? No doubt. Since it’s about power and greed, who are the turn coats from that country that partnered with the CIA? The corrupt ones – those tribal Chiefs and Ahmad’s et al – whose hands are as dirty as ours, more so since they are the deceivers and destroyers of their own people.
Personally, I’m tired of pussy footing around with our hands tied behind our backs trying to win hearts and minds. The next time we get attacked like a 9-11, we determine the origin and reciprocate on their precious mosques and shrines in the area and bomb them back to the stone age. No boots on the ground or ten year war and loss of more American lives. The message, you strike us, we strike back. Something they should understand, an eye for an eye – just like their Shari laws.  We just may get respect. I’m also finally over what the rest of the world thinks of us. We have come to the aid of practically every damn country, nation, island, state, parish, providence, burg, county, city and town square with dollars, supplies, housing, potable water, medicines, people support and the loss of millions of men and women defending them and helping them to rebuild. Where’s the thanks? Don’t like us? Then please let them remain in their tribal hovels with their squat toilets.
J P this is not being a smart a$$ – had to research it for my own self – Islam(ic) is about the faith -Muslim is about the people.
Father John…When I land in hell? LOL, in the Torah (The Old Testament) there’s no mention of the concept of hell. That’s a Christian myth. Jews do not believe in Hell, because by definition, Hell is the place for the ETERNAL punishment of the soul, in the next life, for the sins committed in this life. Although Judaism certainly believes in a punishment in the next life for the sins committed in this life, Jews do not believe in Hell because they believe God to be forgiving, compassionate, and merciful. So, the idea of an ETERNAL punishment makes God look Cruel, and prevents them from believing in a hell.
Father John is a Luceferian Jesuit. He knows the history of his Catholic Institution. The Muslim religion was created by Rome which was divulged by the late Rivera, a former top Jesuit in Vatican.
Father John
August 19th, 2010 at 7:48 am
The Zionist Jesus is coming back to Jerusalem the land of the Jews not the land of the pediphile worshipping muslims. Jesus born a Jew and died a Zionist Jew. Don’t you anit-zionists forget that when you land in HELL.
xxxxxx
Father John, the Luciferian Jesuit, I am not against the Jews or any other ethnic groups on this earth. We just want the truth here.
Does it says in the bible that Christ is a ZIONIST Jew? Also, when HE comes back to earth, is he coming back for Israel or his people?
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